竹島問題の歴史

26.10.07

Oh, no, Dokdo. Here we go, again.

The following was copied from the Free Board (게시판) at Hanmaun's Web site. I have lived in Korea for a long time, but I still do not understand why Koreans have to look at Dokdo and other Korean history as absolutes.

http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2007/10/inspectors-map-of-ulleungdo-shows.html

혐한 외국인, 게리베버가 독도 사이트 개설

가천길대학에서 영어강사하다 짤린 게리 베버라는 녀석이 만든,독도는 일본 영토라는 사이트,
이 자의 주장은, 우산도가 죽도나 관음도라고 주장하는 쪽임.
지도를 가지고 그럴듯하게 논리를 꾸며대는데 능하므로 이 사이트의 주장을 논파하는 논리 구축과, 대응되는 영어판 독도 사이트의 개설이 시급함.그 사이트에 직접 코멘트를 달지 말것! 일부러 혐한 사이트를 유명하게 만들뿐이므로!
추천 : 0, 조회 : 38

http://hanmaum24.oranc.co.kr/bbs/trackback.php?article_srl=118

이름

그 사람 짤렸는지 모르지만, 어디에선가 또 영어강사를 하고 있습니다. 참...댁이 써주신 웹사이트는 그냥 혐한사이트가 아니라 일본인전용 독도전문자료사이트입니다.그 외의 주장은 무시되는 곳이죠.유명한 사이트도 아닙니다. 독도에 대한 일본측의 주장이 어떤 것인가 보려면 방문해보는 것도 좋습니다.

2007-10-24 09:33:44

한마음

이 사이트 방문한 적이 있습니다.Gerry-Bevers는 일본 극우의 하수인이죠. 그가 접하는 자료 거의 대부분이 혐한 일본인에게 받은 겁니다. 물론 그 자신이 찾은 자료나 새로운 소설을 쓴 것도 있죠. 그러나 큰 틀에서의 주장은 일본 극우학자들의 논리를 그대로 카피한 것입니다. 혐한들의 주장과 다를 것이 하나도 없어요. 이젠 자신을 위해서라도 그만할 때가 됐는데.... 뭐, 자신의 무덤을 스스로 파는 행위는 어쩔 수 없죠. 또 모르죠? 생계를 걱정하지 않아도 될, 누군가의 지원이 있을지도....전, 그가 왜 아직도 한국에 남아 있기를 고집하는지 이해할 수 없습니다.한국을 떠나 자신의 고국에서 독도에 대한 글을 올려도 좋을 텐데.... 이건, 실례가 되는 발언인가요? 여하튼 전, 그 부분에 의구심을 가지고 있어요. 아무래도 한국을 떠나면, 그의 주장이 빛을 잃게 될 가능성이 큽니다. 한국에 살고 있는 전직 교수 외국인과 한국과는 아무 관련이 없는 외국인은 그 어감이 크게 다르죠.

일단, 제 사이트를 영문화하기 위해서는 현재의 글을 좀더 다듬고, 오류나 오기를 시정하여, 지금껏 모아둔 새자료를 업데이트하고 구성하는 작업이 우선 되어야 합니다. 지금 예정으로는 11월달은 그러한 작업을 하고, 12월부터는 본격적으로 영문화를 시도할 생각입니다. 그런데, 모든 것이 제 뜻대로만 이루어지는 것은 아니더군요. 적어도 최선을 다하겠다는 약속은 드릴 수 있습니다.

2007-10-24 13:57:29

Gerry Bevers

한마음씨가, 왜 독도 자료를 모으고 토론하세요? 역사 공부는 재미가 있어서 그러시는 거지요? 저도 재미 있어서 하는 거에요. 한국을 욕하려고 하는 것이 아니고 그냥 역사 진실를 알고 싶어서 하는 거에요. 한국 독도 주장에 대하여 그 반론을 하려며는 왜 한국을 먼저 떠나야 할 수 있다고 생각하세요? 한국 영토 안에서 이견이 있으면 안 되는 법이 있어요? 한국에서는 독도에 대한 이견자유가 정말 없으세요? 독도이견을 가진 사람은 왜 생계 협박을 받게 되는 건가요?

일본 극우학자들이 독도에 대하여 무슨 생각, 무슨 말하는지 모르겠어요. 제가 일본어로 쓴 책이 없고 있어도 못 읽는 무식한 사람이에요. 제가 가지고 있는 책은 하나 빼고 다 한국 사람들이 쓴 책이에요. 그리고 한국 사람이 안 쓴 그 한 권은 나이토세이쮸우씨가 쓴 책을 번역한 "獨島와 竹島"인 거예요. 제가 알기로는 그 분은 일본극우가 아닌 사람이에요.

그리고 아무한테서 지원을 받는 것이 없어요. 한마음씨가 왜 그런 생각을 하는 지 모르겠어요. 제가 영어 강사로 일하는 것 뿐이에요.제가 한국을 좋아해서 한국에서 사는 거에요. 한국사람의 역사절대주의 빼고는 모든 한국 문화가 좋아요.

2007-10-26 02:51:41

10 comments:

  1. Seems Steve's English site is not good enough;a Korean specialist on Dokodo knows well what Toadface's site is like.

    (Keep up, Gerry.
    you will be appreciated by Korean people when democracy really take root in Korean society)

    ReplyDelete
  2. To Hanmaumy and Korean voters,
    I'm not anti-Korea, right winger nor nationalist and neither pacifist is. The difference between us is he likes Korean thing, but I am not really interested in Korea itself. But it doesn't mean I hate Korea. And there is some Korean, who can logically argue or present documents which are not distorted, unlike hanmaumy, often come to comment on this site or on Occidentalism. Though we don't share same opinion on 竹島/Liancourt Rocks issue, but we do enjoy our debate very much. I do respect them and I'm happy to see that fellow East Asian are capable of civil debating.. As far as Korean like them are there, I do want to believe there are many Korean who doesn't want to be brainwashed, but truth, not a propaganda. I've been openly expressing that if I found concrete evidence that Korean actually had an effective control over 竹島/Liancourt Rocks before Japan did, I would definately vote for Korea. But so far, all I found was that Korean actually doesn't hold any maps which describe 竹島/Liancourt Rocks or no single documents which proves Koran had owned the island which perfectly matches description of 竹島/Liancourt Rocks. And people like Steve Barber use tons of sophistry to deceive readers by intentionally patch up only what you want to hear from many documents and try to spread Anti-Japan propaganda.

    Having said that, I do believe that Korean people are changing by watching the fact that Gerry still be able to reside within Korea peacefully. This is a good chance that Korean can show to the world that their society are getting ready for real democracy. I do hope nobody will try to make him lose his job again. That would make them lose their reputation from all around the world. Korean need to realize that they are not a developping or third world country nationals anymore, but a rich and famous for its IT industry. Many people from all over the world are watching Korea.

    ReplyDelete
  3. dokdo-takeshima.com26/10/07 23:07

    Kanganese, please show the anti Japan propaganda I've posted. That's all.

    ReplyDelete
  4. So dokdo-takeshima.com (toadface) admitted you are Mr. Steve Barber.

    Frankly spoken Steve, you may think it's fair to distort the translation of Japanese documents such as "Onshu-shicho-goki" or various documents from the Meiji government in order to make Korean people believe the Dokdo myth, don't you? But it is the propaganda itself.

    I hope you will behave yourself and to be fair.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Steve, did you forget what Ponta posted a few days ago?

    You are keep making a strained interpretation which has nothing to do with 竹島/Liancourt Rocks and presenting tons of expressions to demonize Japanese even from the start of Meiji era and the Japanese soldiers in Japan-Russo war and even WWII, while you deliberately ignore the aggressiveness of America, other Europian countries and Russians and incompetance of Choso officials. It's everywhere on Japan-Korea related forum and everyone who had read your propaganda site which you are keep posting its URL on this forum would notice you are the one. Here are only a few of the comments you made which demonize Japan though it has nothing to do with this 竹島/Liancourt Rocks issue.

    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=26948035&postID=4463345707377198315
    "The Japanese expansionist era started in the 1920s?? Is that a joke? When did the Japanese take Taiwan Pacifist? When did they grab Hokkaido from the indigenous people? When did they take the Liandong Peninsula from the Chinese. Didn't you ever hear of the Triple Intervention? The Japanese were grabbing land well before the turn of the century.

    Kaneganese, the Koreans did not call on the Japanese to defend them. The Imperial Navy landed on Korean soil unannounced and uninvited. Then they sank Russian boats that were anchored in Korea. After the Japanese secured Incheon, troops marched into Seoul and after weeks intimidation demanded Korea sign the treaty. Here is how the Japanese announced war."

    toadface Says: July 4th, 2006 at 7:34 am
    "Japan is like the big bully everyone knew in elementary school. Then two years later the other kids grew up and got bigger and stronger and………..
    http://www.occidentalism.org/?p=638#comment-22297

    "Anyway, if any foreign country gets a shot at buying the bird, it should be the Aussies."
    http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/04/23/raptors-nesting-in-japan/#comments

    frogmouth Posted April 6, 2006 at 4:36 pm | Permalink
    "BTW there are many reasons why bamboo or pine don’t grow on these isles.

    The Japanese may have cleared away vegetation during the time it was used as a military observation post. It’s normal to clear away these areas to maintain a high profile and to deter suprise attack. The Japanese raped the forests of Korea during the peninsula’s occupation so to clear these rocks wouldn’t take a long weekend.

    The islands may have been cleared over the years by fishermen who frequented the areas using the trees for firewood boat repair etc. Anyone who had visited a national park knows the environmental strain repeated fires and careless land usage can have."

    You are watched everywhere.

    ReplyDelete
  6. dokdo-takeshima.com27/10/07 01:03

    Pacifist, Saito Hosen's Report on Oki is translated as Oki is the Northwest boundary of Japan by Japanese and Korean historians alike. You argument is deader than dead.

    Oki is Japan's Northwest limit

    Kanganese do you even know the definition of propaganda? Propaganda is inaccurate or biased information to influence people.

    Calling all information that contradicts you "propaganda" is a shabby approach. If you disagree fine. But don't use rhetoric, it doesn't work.

    First of all Japanese agression started well before 1920 this is true. Do you want to read about the Japanese massacre in Port Arthur? This was when they butchered Chinese in 1895 and it was reported by a foreign journalist there.

    Japanese Massacre at Port Arthur

    Yes I said "The Koreans did not call on the Japanese to defend them. The Imperial Navy landed on Korean soil unannounced and uninvited. Then they sank Russian boats that were anchored in Korea. After the Japanese secured Incheon, troops marched into Seoul and after weeks intimidation demanded Korea sign the treaty. Here is how the Japanese announced war...."

    The information was from Peter Duus' "The Abacus and the Sword" it is also true.

    The information I cite are not based only on my original research but rather others who are also knowlegeable. So don't try and turn this inot a personal issue.

    Yes, I think Japan is like a big bully with regard to foreign policy. It's not propaganda but my personal opinion. I was showing how outdated their approach has become given how her neighbours are slowly getting stronger and no longer intimidated.

    BTW where did you get the "Aussies should get the bird." It was made by another guy called Wedge. You are very silly Kaneganese, you gave me a good laugh!! Thanks!

    I'm being watched? Good. That's why I'm here.

    My name is Steve Barber and I invite everyone to come to my website and learn the truth about Japan's false claim to Dokdo Island.

    The Facts of Dokdo

    ReplyDelete
  7. Steve

    Your argument is founded well..

    1 Japan was imperialst at the time.

    2 Japan invaded Korean territory.

    3 Linacourt was Korean territory

    4 Therefore, Japanese claim to Dokdo is without base.

    Now what you need to show is 3 is true. But so far you have failed to prove it. Therefore, your argument fails.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Steve,

    Your site is the propaganda itself. Look at the "Onshu-shicho goki" in your site. It's apparent that you are misleading people with the wrong translation.

    You may know what you are intentionally misleading, with putting emphasis on the misleading point printed in red. This is the propaganda itself, Steve.

    You wrote that some Japanese scholars favour your translation? Who are they? Can't be true.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Steve Barber wrote;
    "Kanganese do you even know the definition of propaganda? Propaganda is inaccurate or biased information to influence people."
    EXACTLY!! That is I'm keepng tellig you are spreading propaganda. And It is good to see that at least you admit you are an anti-Japan.

    I'm not goint to get into datails of war in 旅順, since it has nothing to do with 竹島/Liancourt Rocks issue but I have to point out that presenting those unrelated issue here and make readers believe that Japanese war history has anything to do with the incorporation of 竹島/Liancourt Rocks in 1905 is literally a propaganda. We have already proved that Director Kimotsuki clearly knew that 竹島/Liancourt Rocks was outside of Korean territory since the location of the island with longitude and latitude was far (approx. 100km) eastern from Korean eastern border which was clearly written in 1894 Choson Sea directory by Japanese Navy. All the documents by Japan, British and even Korean official books support this as a fact. Those "Western journalists" and the great Western and American powers were desperately trying to protect their vested interests in China from Japan stop being taken away those from Japan, and wrote those article to make the readers to show how Asians are brutal and uncivilized race. This is exactly what Korean government and Western "Dokdo-lobbyist" like you are faranticalyy trying to do today.

    First, you have to show Korean had soverignty over 竹島/Liancourt Rocks before Japan did, not only had been alrealy informed by Japanese 5 years prior to.
    Second, you need to show Director Kimotsuki and others who were involved in incorporation process was aware of the island was Korean, which I had already debunked by 1894 Choson Sea Directory. It is now clear that Nakai first thought it could be Korean when he saw Choson Sea Chart by Japanese Navy which also described Tsushima and other Japanese territory only to show the safe sea route around Korean penninsula.

    If you can't show above, and still frantically presenting the unrelated issues which deliberately demonizing Japanese, we can safely deliver the judgement that your site and comments are propaganda and anti-Japan.

    By the way, can you prove you are not "Wedge"? I thought you've been attacking opp on his site with that ID. As long as you are using multiple ID's on same site or other site on similar issue, you are subject to mistaken for a wrong person. Therefore, it is you who has to prove you are not the person if you want to claim you are not.

    ReplyDelete
  10. dokdo-takeshima.com27/10/07 15:54

    Kanganese, just because you childishly stamp you feet and scream that Dokdo and Japanese Militarism are not related doesn't make it so. Do you really feel presenting the relevant data "demonizes the Japanese" I don't think so at all. Historical documents don't demonize anyone if you feel guilty about what your grandparents did that is your hangup.

    Japanese military records prove you are wrong. Why? Let me show you.

    Nakai Yozaburo's diary records "Political Affairs Bureau Director Yamaza Enjiro. He said the incorporation was urgent particularly under the present situation, and it is absolutely necessary and advisable to construct watchtowers and install wireless or submarine cable and keep watch on the hostile warships. This shows why the Japanese annexed Dokdo.

    Japan's Military Annexation of Dokdo

    The Japanese Warship Tsushima was issued directive #276 on November 13th 1904. This was about three months before the Japanese annexed Dokdo. It read as follows.

    (a) Inform of the test of the wireless telegraph communications of Takasaki Mountain along with the test technician.(b) Survey Liancourt  Rocks (Dokdo Island) for its suitability for telegraph installation (not wireless telegraph)(c) Dispatch workers and materials for Matsushima, (Ulleungdo) Jukpyeon, and Cape Ulsan watchtowers.

    This shows the military activities on Korea's Jukpyeon, Ulsan and Matsushima, were totally inseparable from Japan's occupation of other territories in Asia at this time. In other words the acquisition of Liancourt Rocks was a form of military aggression.

    The surveys done on Liancourt Rocks in November 1904 were undertaken for building military outposts. Thus the island was seized for no purpose other than to defeat the Russians for the "right" to colonize Korea. The acquisitons of territory must be part of a natural peaceful process Kaneganese.

    The Ugly Truth Behind Japan's Claim to Dokdo

    Don't tell me what I "have to show" Kaneganese. You and your right-wing Takeshima lobbyists don't set the standard for burden of proof of anything.

    ReplyDelete