A study of the territorial dispute between Japan and Korea over Liancourt Rocks, a small cluster of barren, rocky islets in the Sea of Japan that Japanese call Takeshima and Koreans call Dokdo.
Being Takeshima/Dokdo Otaku isn't a bad thing at all. Through the studies of the issue, we get more historical, linguistic, political knowledges. I hope more people would join us and enjoy the serious discussion.
Gerry,
I think it is remarkable that we had 1 million hits on this blog.
I first thought it is due to last week's VANK kids voting, but even after the comments frenzy ceased, it still keeps more than thousands hits a day. It means a lot, I believe. I think it owes a lot to your sincere attitudes to the issue.
Initially, I started just to help Gerry to build the blog, but I got kind of into it (and I dragged pacifist into this). Now I'm really grateful to him for showing the world to me. Otherwise, I didn't know much about Korea and our history.
By the way, I didn't know about the singer, but good song and nice voice.
Actually, I have not really studied much about the legal aspects of the incorporation, but Japanese officials did consider Liancourt Rocks to be Japanese territory in the 1880s. See HERE.
According to THIS DOCUMENT, the Japanese determined that Liancourt Rocks had not been occupied by any other country and that a Japanese fisherman was living on the island and running a fishing operation from there since 1903, which they claimed was justification for incorporating the islets. HERE is the fisherman's petition for incorporating the islets.
I am not sure what legal terminology the Japanese used when incorporating Liancourt Rocks, but it looks like part of their justification was based on the fact that it was occupied by a Japanese fisherman.
Actually, I would like to see a more detailed post on the subject since I cannot read Japanese and must rely on my Japanese co-managers for translations and information from the Japanese side.
One thing I do know it that there is no evidence that Korea ever claimed the island or occupied it before the Japanese.
You have to know that at the time the fisherman claimed Dokdo, there has been massive illegal trespassing by japanese to Ulleung-Do. The fisherman was one of them. Due to Korean weaknesses, they even couldn`t dispell the japanese from Ulleung-do, the Koreans weren`t able to object. A similar thing happened with the "East Sea"/ "Sea of Japan" dispute, where Korea simply couldn`t object.
All the things make the japanes incorporation of Dokdo illegal since it was based on the illegal intrusion into Ulleungdo.
Meiji Government incorporated it because there were no trace of oppupation by any other countries, but there were only Japanese fishermen's hut for seal hunting on the island. We are not sure that the historical evidences of Japanese effective control since 1600s were taken into consideration or not. But there were no trace of other countries, including Korea, 's occupation.
There were no Japanese, Korean and western maps and documents around 1900 which described Takeshima/Dokdo as Korean territory. Most of them described as Japanese territory and others as unoccupied.
On this site there are many maps suggesting that Dokdo belonged to Japan? Why didn`t Japan rely on them? Just because an island is uninhabited doesn`t make it Terra nullius. It looks like Japan considered its older maps weak and wrong, so it claimed Dokdo as undesignated.
As I already said, massive Japanese intrusion into Ulleung just made it impossible for Korea to object and Korea had other problems at that time. That doesn`t make the japanese incorporation of Dokdo legal, right or just, I think.
"Just because an island is uninhabited doesn`t make it Terra nullius."
No, as I said, they didn't say Terra Nullis, they simply wrote there were no trace of oppupation by any other countries, but there were only Japanese fishermen's hut for seal hunting on the island.
"massive Japanese intrusion into Ulleung just made it impossible for Korea to object and Korea had other problems at that time."
Only in your dreams. In August 1905, the Anglo-Japanese Alliance was renewed and 朴斉純, a Korean Minister of Foreign Affairs, did officially protest against both Japan and Britain. There is no excuse Korean government could do nothing because of Japanese. They could have done same protest against the incorporation, too. But they didn't.
If they really knew and had effctive control over Takeshima/Dokdo as Korean today wish, why they didn't even notice Japanese naval watchtower, built on Takesihma/Dokdo on Aug. 19, 1905? The answer is, Korean officials simply didn't know about Takeshima. That is the reason Korean didn't made protest against incorporation, not "Japanese intrusion".
Japan claimed Dokdo under the Terra nullius doctrine. If Dokdo had been japanese, it would`ve been clear for japanese that the island is not occupied by another country.
Of course many japanese invaded Ulleung-Do. Shortly after, they invaded Korean mainland. Sorry to say so.
OK, you are now officially a Dokdo Otaku, as if we didn't know already!
ReplyDeleteGerry,
ReplyDeleteHere is a song by Sting for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ8ahL8LsEQ
Congratulations!!!
Raquel,
ReplyDeleteThanks. I like that song and have added the link to the post.
Scott,
ReplyDeleteBeing Takeshima/Dokdo Otaku isn't a bad thing at all. Through the studies of the issue, we get more historical, linguistic, political knowledges. I hope more people would join us and enjoy the serious discussion.
Gerry,
I think it is remarkable that we had 1 million hits on this blog.
I first thought it is due to last week's VANK kids voting, but even after the comments frenzy ceased, it still keeps more than thousands hits a day. It means a lot, I believe. I think it owes a lot to your sincere attitudes to the issue.
Anyway, congratulation.
Scott,
ReplyDeleteI do not know what "Otaku" means, but have you ever heard of the following Korean expression?
미치지 않으면 미치지 못한다.
The Chinese equivalent would be:
不狂不及
Thanks, Kaneganese, but we worked on this site together.
Kaneganese,
ReplyDeleteCongratulations to you too!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNR9G9LPE4A
I like this song. I hope you like it too.
Thanks, raquel
ReplyDeleteInitially, I started just to help Gerry to build the blog, but I got kind of into it (and I dragged pacifist into this). Now I'm really grateful to him for showing the world to me. Otherwise, I didn't know much about Korea and our history.
By the way, I didn't know about the singer, but good song and nice voice.
Hi Gerry,
ReplyDeleteAlthough I very much appreciate your detailed research of Dokdo/Takeshima maps I take the Korean side over this issue and I want to ask you something.
If you really believe that Dokdo belonged to Japan at any point of time before 1905, why did they incorporate it as "TERRA NULLIUS" ?
I guess you know the meaning of "TERRA NULLIUS".
This action proves that even Japan herself didn`t believe that Dokdo belonged to Japan.
Just my two cents.
Bye
Helpfish,
ReplyDeleteActually, I have not really studied much about the legal aspects of the incorporation, but Japanese officials did consider Liancourt Rocks to be Japanese territory in the 1880s. See HERE.
According to THIS DOCUMENT, the Japanese determined that Liancourt Rocks had not been occupied by any other country and that a Japanese fisherman was living on the island and running a fishing operation from there since 1903, which they claimed was justification for incorporating the islets. HERE is the fisherman's petition for incorporating the islets.
I am not sure what legal terminology the Japanese used when incorporating Liancourt Rocks, but it looks like part of their justification was based on the fact that it was occupied by a Japanese fisherman.
Actually, I would like to see a more detailed post on the subject since I cannot read Japanese and must rely on my Japanese co-managers for translations and information from the Japanese side.
One thing I do know it that there is no evidence that Korea ever claimed the island or occupied it before the Japanese.
You have to know that at the time the fisherman claimed Dokdo, there has been massive illegal trespassing by japanese to Ulleung-Do. The fisherman was one of them. Due to Korean weaknesses, they even couldn`t dispell the japanese from Ulleung-do, the Koreans weren`t able to object. A similar thing happened with the "East Sea"/ "Sea of Japan" dispute, where Korea simply couldn`t object.
ReplyDeleteAll the things make the japanes incorporation of Dokdo illegal since it was based on the illegal intrusion into Ulleungdo.
helpfish,
ReplyDeletePlease read the following pacifist's post about Japanese incorporation into Shimane Prefecture.
1905 - January 28th: the dicision by a Cabinet meeting （閣議決定）
Meiji Government incorporated it because there were no trace of oppupation by any other countries, but there were only Japanese fishermen's hut for seal hunting on the island. We are not sure that the historical evidences of Japanese effective control since 1600s were taken into consideration or not. But there were no trace of other countries, including Korea, 's occupation.
See my post.
Korean Eastern limits described in various books world wide exclude Takeshima/Dokdo from Korean Territory
And pacifist's map post, too.
Index of Posts on Dokdo-or-Takeshima?
There were no Japanese, Korean and western maps and documents around 1900 which described Takeshima/Dokdo as Korean territory. Most of them described as Japanese territory and others as unoccupied.
On this site there are many maps suggesting that Dokdo belonged to Japan? Why didn`t Japan rely on them? Just because an island is uninhabited doesn`t make it Terra nullius. It looks like Japan considered its older maps weak and wrong, so it claimed Dokdo as undesignated.
ReplyDeleteAs I already said, massive Japanese intrusion into Ulleung just made it impossible for Korea to object and Korea had other problems at that time. That doesn`t make the japanese incorporation of Dokdo legal, right or just, I think.
helpfish,
ReplyDelete"Just because an island is uninhabited doesn`t make it Terra nullius."
No, as I said, they didn't say Terra Nullis, they simply wrote there were no trace of oppupation by any other countries, but there were only Japanese fishermen's hut for seal hunting on the island.
"massive Japanese intrusion into Ulleung just made it impossible for Korea to object and Korea had other problems at that time."
Only in your dreams. In August 1905, the Anglo-Japanese Alliance was renewed and 朴斉純, a Korean Minister of Foreign Affairs, did officially protest against both Japan and Britain. There is no excuse Korean government could do nothing because of Japanese. They could have done same protest against the incorporation, too. But they didn't.
If they really knew and had effctive control over Takeshima/Dokdo as Korean today wish, why they didn't even notice Japanese naval watchtower, built on Takesihma/Dokdo on Aug. 19, 1905? The answer is, Korean officials simply didn't know about Takeshima. That is the reason Korean didn't made protest against incorporation, not "Japanese intrusion".
Japan claimed Dokdo under the Terra nullius doctrine. If Dokdo had been japanese, it would`ve been clear for japanese that the island is not occupied by another country.
ReplyDeleteOf course many japanese invaded Ulleung-Do. Shortly after, they invaded Korean mainland. Sorry to say so.
Hosaka sensei is at it again.
ReplyDeletehttp://issue.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/07/30/2008073001422.html
"미치지 않으면 미치지 못한다."
ReplyDeleteUh, "If you're not crazy you can't succeed?" (Rough translation.)
Anyway, Otaku is Japanese for geek. Your Ilbon friends haven't explained that to you yet?
Scott Bug