The Korean ministry replied that the county was established on October 25, 1900, and that the neighboring islands were Jukdo (竹島) and Seokdo (石島). The Korean ministry also gave the dimensions of Ulleungdo as being sixty ri from east to west and forty ri from north to south for a total of 200 ri. Since a Korean ri was 0.4 kilometers, that means Uldo County was defined as having an area of 24km x 16km.
The 200 ri figure referred to the perimeter of the county (60 + 60 + 40 + 40 = 200), which converts up to 80 kilometers.
This article is very important in the Dokdo/Takeshima debate because it is evidence that the Korean government in 1906 did not recognize "Dokdo" (Liancourt Rocks) as being part of Uldo County since Dokdo is about 90km southeast of Ulleungdo.
It is quite probable that the Japanese request for clarification of the neighboring islands of Ulleungdo was caused by recent Korean newspaper reports saying that Japan had incorporated an island named "Dokdo" (Liancourt Rocks), which the Uldo County Magistrate thought was part of his county, even though he did not know exactly where it was. Since the magistrate had been ordered by his superiors to confirm the status of Dokdo, and since the Korean government did not include Dokdo in their reply to the Japanese request months later, we can assume that the investigation revealed that Dokdo was not a part of Ulleungdo.
The article was apparently discovered by a Mr. Sugino Yomei (杉野洋明), who wrote about it in Japanese on his site HERE. Below is the article and my translation. The newspaper page the article came from can be found HERE:
Facts on Arrangement of Uldo CountyThe Resident-General sent an official letter to the Interior Ministry asking it to clarify what islands belonged to Ulleungdo, which is under the administration of Samcheok County in Gangwon Province, and the year and month the county office was established. The response was that the post of Ulleungdo Administrator was established on May 20, 1898, and then on October 25, 1900, the government decided to post a county magistrate with the county office being at Daehadong (台霞洞). It said the islands under the authority of the said county were Jukdo (竹島) and Seokdo (石島), and that it was sixty ri from east to west and forty ri from north to south for a total of 200 ri.
鬱島郡의 配置顛末
統監府에서 內部에 公函하되 江原道 三陟郡 管下에 所在 鬱陵島에 所属島嶼와 郡廳設始 年月을 示明하라는 故로 答函하되、光武二年五月二十日에 鬱陵島監으로 設始 하였다가 光武四年十月二十五日에 政府會議를 經由하야 郡守를 配置하니 郡廳은 台霞洞에 在하고 該郡所管島는 竹島石島오、東西가 六十里오 南北이 四十里니, 合 二百餘里라고 하였다더라.
Gerry
ReplyDeleteThank you, this is great.
I noticed that you've changed “公照”“答酬”“郡廳設始月”“鬱陵島統監” and I think you are correct. But one thing, “政府合議” seems to be "政府"會"議”, which is a old letter for "会" to me. Anyway, your Chinese knowledge has improved a lot.
Thank you, Kaneganese.
ReplyDeleteI just checked it again and made one more change. I added 始 to get the following:
鬱陵島監으로 設始 하였다가...
In Korea, the 會 character is used more commonly than 会; however, it is hard for me to tell if it is 合議 or 會議. Anyway, they both pretty much say the same thing, so I will change it to 會議.
This article was a good find, and I think fitted in a big piece of the puzzle.
Gerr, Kaneganese,
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting discovery. BTW, please let me know about the "toal of 200-ri" (more precisely it says more than 200-ri or 200 plus a little). The same figure was written in some old Korean maps as Kaneganese already pointed out. So it may not have been a mistake. What do you think of this figure?
In my opinion, as Gerry once suggested, it may have been a way to represent an area. If you think of a rectangle with a long side of 60-ri and a short side of 40-ri, the total of the circumference is 200-ri. So old Korean people may have used this way to represent an area.
Even if this is right, it is apparent that Liancourt rocks was not included in the area because Liancourt rocks are 230-ri away from the area.
This 顛末 record on 皇城新聞 dated on1906.07.23
ReplyDeleteis kind of re-confirm and that Uldo鬱郡-area's definition.
Ofcourse the discription of
"東西가 六十里오 南北이 四十里니, 合 二百餘里라고 하였다이다." is quoted from Korean old ulleungdo's detail maps like 大東輿地圖、大東方輿圖 and so on.
Those maps wrote 1里 be about 0.2Km, not 0.4Km of Korean typical measure.
皇城新聞 on 1906.05.09 stated ”獨島”（Liancourt Rocks） be on 外洋百余里 quote from the report by 沈興澤 on 1906.04.01.
Orcourse, 外洋100余里 is not included the area within Uldo鬱島郡's area"東西가 六十里오 南北이 四十里니, 合 二百餘里라고 하였다이다."
If Seokdo石島 on the report of 23th of July 1906 and Dokdo獨島 on the report of 9May1906 are same rock(s), they would have written distance from Ullunegdo to Liancourt Rocks in the report on 23July1906 and Seokdo be original name of Dokdo. In addition, if Usando be liancourt Rocks,they would have witten ”Dokdo" be Usando or Seokdo on their report.
But there is no record and comment like that because those name shows those are different islands.
I think the person who make public the Hwangseong Shinmun article was Sugino Yomei (杉野洋明), right? Can someone please tell me if Sugino Yomei is a man or a woman. THIS PAGE seems to suggest Sugino Yomei is a very beautiful woman.
ReplyDeleteI would like to give credit to Sugino Yomei for finding the article, but I do not know whether to write "Mr. Sugino Yomei" or Ms. "Sugino Yomei."
Gerry,
ReplyDeleteI'm not perfectly sure if he is a man or woman, but "Mr. Sugino" is better since he used to call himself "Nidanosuke". "～suke" usually means a man in Japanese name. By the way, He is the guy who found 慶尚道地図 in 「大韓新地誌」(1907) which included Jukdo but exclude Takeshima/Dokdo from Korean territory. (http://ameblo.jp/nidanosuke/entry-10028317658.html#cbox)
Thank you, Kaneganese. So he was the one who noticed the 1907 map!
ReplyDeleteBy the way, that 1907 map, showing Jukdo as Ulleungdo's only neighboring island, is more evidence that the name "Seokdo" (石島) was just a catchall word for all the other small "rocky islets" around Ulleungdo, rather than a reference to Kwaneumdo (觀音島).
Also, I will be busy for the next couple of days, so I will not be able to check that translation of yours until sometime next week. Your email went into my SPAM folder for some reason, and I did not see it until just yesterday. That is a long translation, by the way.
Take care.
Kaneganese & Pacifist,
ReplyDeleteI just noticed that our site counter, which shows the number of visits to the site, has gone over 200,000. I think our survey question has had a lot to do with that.
By the way, Kaneganese, does your daughter and her friends have an opinion on the Dokdo/Takeshima debate? If they do, maybe they should vote, too?
Gerry, the article shows us one of two things.
ReplyDeleteFirst if the authour was citing the circumference of Ulleungdo as 200ri they had zero first hand knowledge of Ulleungdo. This is because we know Ulleungdo's circumference was historically known as 100ri.
Second, if they were quoting the circumference of Uldo County as 200ri is shows the limits of Korea extended well beyond Ulleungdo's shores eastward. The last line does not say Ulleungdo's circumference was 200 ri. It was quoting the dimensions of Uldo County outlying islands Jukdo and Seokdo inclusive. It is just as plausible the writer didn't know the distance to Seokdo.
Any disputes by Chosun regarding the status of Dokdo would have been forwarded to Durham White Stevens in 1906. He in turn would have handed them to Komura Jutaro who would have conveniently g-filed them. In fact, when the U.S. disputed Japan claim over Marcus Island, Komura dispatched a naval war vessel to deal with the Americans. End of dispute.
Assertions by Takeshima lobbyists that Chosun was empowered to contest Japan's claim over the island are quite laughable considering the political and historical circumstances in Korea in 1906.
Steve Barber,
ReplyDeleteYou are the one who seems to have zero knowledge of Ulleungdo.
Ulleungdo's "sabang" (四方), which means "four directions" and referred to "area" of the island, was traditional quoted as 100 ri. That was what the north-south and east-west distances were referring to. The sabang was the sum of those distances.
However, the circumference, which was written as 周回 and referred to the distance around the island, was traditional quoted as 200 ri.
For example, look at the Chinese characters marked in red over this KOREAN MAP of ULLEUNGDO. They read as follows:
東西六十餘里南北四十餘里周二百餘里
East to west about 60 ri,
東西六十餘里
South to north about 40 ri,
南北四十餘里
The numbers are referring to the area of Ulleungdo, the "sabang" (四方), and they add up to 100 ri.
Next,
Circumference about 200 ri
周二百餘里
The 周 character is an abbreviation of 周回, which referred to the circumference of Ulleungdo, which was traditional given as about 200 ri. So the above map gave both the area and circumference of Ulleungdo.
As long as you have been studying this issue, Steve, it seems you should have learned that by now.
I think most Korean historians have finally realized that "Dokdo" was not historically Korean territory and have stopped talking about the history. Maybe, it is time you stopped embarrassing yourself, too?
Gerry,
ReplyDelete"I will not be able to check that translation of yours until sometime next week. Your email went into my SPAM folder for some reason, and I did not see it until just yesterday. That is a long translation, by the way."
That's OK. Yes, it is loooooong. I'm really sorry that I have to ask you such a long one. But I think it is well-written and well-organized from professional view, and worth to read at least once. though it is a bit old. He added many new informations later in the final report, which I'm working on now. If you find any mistake or opposite opinion, let me know. I appreciate your opinion. And bad new. I will send you another one later which is a bit urgent when I finish. Please check the one I send you later first when you get back.
"does your daughter and her friends have an opinion on the Dokdo/Takeshima debate? "
Japanese students doesn't learn anything about Takeshima at school. Actually, she's never heard of it. And that's why I started to think to do something about it so that even junior high school kids who has some English ability can understand what we are talking about easily, since many Korean and Japanese youngsters who had visited our site recently didn't seem to care to read our posts unfortunately.
Pacifist,
I hope the above comments by Gerry cleared your question. I think it is the best answer to this description "東西가 六十里오 南北이 四十里니, 合 二百餘里라고 하였다이다.
". Even though it has no 周, there is 合 instead. 60+60+40+40=200 (cirumference of the square) is the only way to understand as you say. They must have used circumference to express the jurisdictional area of Uldo County.
Pacifist,
ReplyDeleteI am sorry, but I did not notice your question until Kaneganese just mentioned it.
Kaneganese,
Another one? Wow, translation must be your life. :)
So, Gerry you've selected option (a) from what I've pointed out above.
ReplyDeleteIf the circumference of Ulleungdo is quoted as 200ri this article is terribly off. It wasn't based on a survey of the region but rather old historical maps or documents and probably thrown in with Chosun Ordinance 41 of the year 1900. The newspaper article leads to the earlier incorrect maps of Kim Jong-ho that show Ulleungdo to be over double the size.
I still Ulleungdo's sabang ri at 100 ri is a pretty accurate circumference of Ulleungdo. It is just a method of measuring land perimeter in sa (four) directions. It is best interpreted as circumference. It is about the same as Japanese circumference of 9ri. (36kms) I think Leegyuwon also gave a circu
Gerry, I'm not so sure Sa-bang is related to the 19th Century maps you are citing.
Don't be so sure Sa-bang means "FROM North TO South or FROM East TO West. Sabang was an ancient term. It simply says North, South= Xri and East,West=X ri and could refer to the aggregate length of all four sides not just a measurement of two. It could be translated as North AND South=Xri.
Ancient Chosun could have started at one side of Ulleungdo sailed due East to the other side and took a measurement, sailed due South and took a measurement, sailed West etc and then totalled the distances. Or it the land was somewhat symmetrical just assume the other side was equal.
Gerry, you can translate this any way you want, however the math shows the flaws of your data. The circumference of Ulleungdo is about 110 ri based on a very generous 14km diameter (Jukdo inclusive.)
Gerry, you should stop citing the maps of Kim Jong-ho. You should also disregard those that are obvious copies especially with regard to dimensions given.
ReplyDeleteTwo surveys of Ulleungdo give the circumference of Ulleungdo. In 1794 Shim Jin Hyeon gave the circumference (周回) as 70~80ri North South and 50~60ri East West. As I was about to mention above, Lee Gyuwon gave a very large circumference of 140 ri around Ulleungdo in 1882 I think. 200ri is much too large.
It's no coincidence the newspaper article uses the same incorrect measurements of Kim Jong-ho's maps. As I've said the article is a mixture of inaccurate maps and ordinance 41 in 1900.
pacifist,
ReplyDeleteメールを送ったのですが、ひょっとして又spamになっているかもしれません。お手数ですが、チェックしてもらえませんか？
Steve Barber wrote: "Don't be so sure Sa-bang means "FROM North TO South or FROM East TO West."
ReplyDeleteGerry writes: "Sabang," (四方) or "jibang" (地方), was almost certainly calculated by adding the north-south and east-west distances, which would mean that 100 ri was almost perfect for Ulleungdo since 100 divided among the "four sides" (四方) of Ulleungdo would be 25 ri. Since 25 ri equals ten kilometers, that would mean that each of the "four sides" (四方) sides of Ulleungdo would be ten kilometers long.
So, why did Kim Jeong-ho and the above document give 100 ri for the area (四方), but 200 ri for the circumference (周回)?
My theory is that there was a "land ri" (0.4 kilometers) and a "nautical ri" (0.2 kilometers), and that the land ri was used to calculate the area, but the nautical ri was used to calculate the circumference since the circumference would have been measured on the water.
Shim Jin-hyeon did not calculate the circumference (周回) in his 1794 report, but just gave the north-south and east-west distances; however, in his 1786 report, Kim Chang-yun calculated the circumference as 120 ri and gave the north-south and east-west distances as 70-80 ri and 60-70 ri, respectively.
Notice that even if you add up Kim Chang-yun's lower distances for the north-south and east-west distances, you still get an area that is more than the circumference he gave, which means the area and circumference were calculated separately. It also appears that he may have not used the 0.2 kilometer ri to calculate his circumference. There seems to have been people who used the 0.2 kilometer ri on water and those who did not.
Link to Kim Chang-yun's 1786 report
ReplyDeleteGerry, Shim Hin Hyeon gave the distances and quoted "周回" when in his survey. He stated the "circumference the island was 75~80 north-south and 55~60 east west."
ReplyDelete蓋島周回, 摠爲論之, 則南北七八十里許, 東西五六十里許
Honestly I don't know why Kim Jeong Ho quoted such strange distances. I think he just screwed up. Look at the scale ratio on his maps Gerry, that's a dead giveaway he was overestimating the size of Ulleungdo,
As far as land distances on Ulleungdo we know they were way off. First they were always rounded off in tens of ri. This leaves huge room for error. Also, we don't know if they were ballparked "as the crow flies" or estimated after painfully winding up the mountainous terrain of Ulleungdo.
It must have been Hell trying to map the interior of Ulleungdo. I had to laugh at Leegyuwon's quote in his diary. He stated "the slopes were so steep they touched his forehead on the way up, and the back of his head during descent..." The rough, heavily forested terrain would have made measuring tough.
I've thought about the .2km ri for some time but I'm still not sold on it for a few reasons. First, it doesn't make sense to use a smaller ri to measure distances on the open sea. Oceans were usually measured with larger increments. Historically cultures methods of measuring became larger as they broadened their range. Maybe .2kms was an ancient ri..?
Secondly we can see that the Japanese also made huge miscalculations when they too measured nautical distances such as from Ulleungdo to Dokdo. Lastly, historically we know a Chosun ri was 400 meters. Dreaming up new increments of measurement without historical reference is not a good idea. It would clear up a lot of confusion though.
I checked the info which shows Ulleungdo's area as far as possible.
ReplyDeleteList of Ulleungdo information which use 周 or 長/方
First of all,most of detail maps of Ulleungdo they use 周、it seems Circumference.
This is an information from Ulleungdo survey team from 1711(or 1702?)
周囲二百余里 has two types of additioal information,
1.東西八十餘里/南北五十餘里
2.東西六十里/南北四十里
This information seems to be much trusted than second group below, because this is information reported by Ulleungdo's inspector.
Second, Group of 長/方
江原道maps and Peninsula map use 方、長.
I guess "方" for the distance from north to south PLUS east to west.
Considering those map of Usando's location,mostly west or south, of Ulluengdo, which use 長/方. It implies those succeed old concept of Ulleungdo before Anh's incident.
Those information of 方百余里 has sometimes additional information of 廣六十里（See the link above).But no information of rest 40里 （100-60＝40）
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteUlleungdo's circle distance is almost 40Km,incruding Jukdo竹嶼 and 観音島Gwaneumdo.
ReplyDeleteSee map and calculation quote from Landsat data by Kashimir
I dont know why ,anyway Korean calculate the distance which applies 1 ri be 0.2Km instead of regural 0.4km.
so 42.2km be almost 周200里,applies 1里 be 0.2Km incruding SokoTo鼠項島＝Gwaneumdo観音島 and Jukdo竹嶼
It is difficult to conclude which island is Seokdo.
ReplyDelete1.鼠項島（SoKoTo)=Gwaneumdo
韓国水産誌Index そ（So)
周辺に幾多の岩礁アリ。其最大ナルヲ北東側に浮かへる竹嶼とし、最高点は四百二十四尺あり。これに次ぐものは其の北方即ち本島北島角の尖端に接して浮へる鼠項島なり、
the most promonent rockly coast northeast of Ulleungdo including 大岩（竹巖）,Seokbo石圃,亭石浦 and 三仙巖.
観音島Gwaneumdo=鼠項島SoKoTo on the mapSome Ulleungdo antique maps by Chosun Inspector Officer shows Small Usando be Gwaneumdo, judging from its own shapes and location.
2.The five southcoast rocks on Chosun antique map from 1699-1901,
Conventional recognization of Ulleungdo by Korean is Ulleungdo is
Ulleungdo+Six adjunctive small islands.
=Ulleungdo
+Usando one of six Most prominent adjunctive island
+five southerncoast rocks,
though some Ulleungdo's detail map by Inspector shows most two prominent rocks is Jukdo竹嶼（大于島Big Usando)紫亜 and Gwaneumdo観音島（Small Usando小于島）
3.竹島石島-One island twin names.
IF Tessemiてっせみ was recorded by Japanese Judging from the Korean pronunsation of Tokssom instead of Daetsom.
And this report was from Pusan office, they may have heard the report on 1900 with La Porte and 赤塚正助 and 渡辺鷹治郎?
Jukdo was recognized as most prominent "Stone island."
And other Japanese record shows Seokdo as Tosse
omトツソム
1880.09戦艦天城の日誌
鬱陵島ニシテ其北方ノ小島竹島ト號スル者アレ共、一個ノ巖石ニ過サル旨
North of Ulleungdo there are a small island which are called Jukdo ,which is just a Rock(y islands).
1883.水路雑誌
東方に一小嶼あり。且奇石怪巖島を環らして星羅せり。
One small island in the east (of ulluengdo).
1886.12寰瀛水路誌 第二巻第二版 韓露沿岸』
”竹嶼洋名「ボーッソール」岩を除く外余は皆石崖クリツフを距る四分里一を出でず竹嶼は最大岩にして”
Jukdo is most bigest stone (island)
I just read it from the website below that they told PRESIDENT of 皇城新聞 is 張志淵, who wrote 大韓新地誌 on 1907?
ReplyDelete獄長日記 2005.09.21
http://ameblo.jp/dreamtale/day-20050921.html
It is sure that Korean didn't recognized that Liancourt Rocks is Ulleungdo area and didn't stablished control before 1905.
ReplyDeleteSee "korean recognization of Ulluengdo (or Ulluengdo area).
They change their recognization after 1907.They said that Ulleungdo area is 500里 which the discription maybe incrude Liancourt Rocks into Uldo. The author of 張志淵 is strongly anti-Japan side so I guess he ignore central goverment's dicision of this Jul 1906 doccument.
But, seeing other record before 1906, Korean's recognization of Ulleungdo (or Ulluengdo area) is 150-200里 and 60-80里East/West and 40-50 north/south.
We ofcourse knew Liancourt Rocks is about 90km away from Ulluengdo. Usually those remoted island, those Ulleungdo inspector would have reported distance or special explanation if Korean recognized Liancourt Rocks be territory of Korea around 1900.Ofcourse we know there is nothing report like that.
Actually the newspaper contents on this thread wrote "地方”which surely suggest district of Uldo.
GTOMR,
ReplyDeleteYes, it is strange that the area (地方) of Ulleungdo suddenly jumped from 200 ri (里) in 1906 to 500 ri (里) in 1907. As you said, that is more evidence that Korea did not recognize Liancourt Rocks as being part of Ulleungdo in 1906, which was when Japan had asked Korea's Interior Ministry to confirm Ulleungdo's neighboring islands.
ビーバーさん、初めまして
ReplyDelete日本語で失礼します。
鬱島郡の配置顛末の内容については、
その新聞記事の原典資料となる
光武四年十月二十五日政府会議録
が、もし現存するならば、それ
を調べれば明確になると思うのですが
その点をお教え下さいませ。
There are original source of document @ independence hall website;
ReplyDelete1906.07.13皇城新聞 鬱陵島配置顛末
Visualize the width of Uldo area 24km*16km,circumstance80km
Folks,
ReplyDeleteRead what the document says:
管下에 所在 鬱陵島에 所属島嶼
This means Ulleungdo and appurtenant islands are under the administration of the office. The appurtenant islands are separate entities from Ulleungdo!
The area of Ulleungdo is 73.15 km2. Since Ulleungdo is not a square, to make an island of this size, you need to have a dimension from east to west of about 10 km (40 ri) and another dimension from north to south of about 10 km (40 ri). Here, the text says 60 ri (15 km) and 40 km (10km) for each. This is the dimension of Ulleungdo, not of the appurtenant islands. About 200 ri, you do the math: 40 + 60 + 40 + 50 to approximate the periphery of the Ulleungdo by a rectangle. The text says so: "合 二百餘里라고 하였다더라." "合" means addition! This document talks about Ulleungdo. The distance between Ulleungdo and Dokdo cannot be obtained by the dimensions of Ulleungdo. And it says 竹島 and 石島 are "appurtenant islands." 石 means rock, for which the Korean sound is "dok." Dokdo is an appurtenant island of Ulleungdo, from the beginning of human history, at that time, now, and in the future.
Correction of ri to 10 km conversion: 40 ri is actually 16 km, and 60 ri is acutally 24 km. Here, the lateral dimensions of Ulleungdo are overestimated (16 km x 24 km as opposed to ~ 10 km x 10 km). But this is beside the point. The point is that "ri" refers to a distance in land, about 400 m. Ri is never a unit of area. Also, Ri on land has never been a nautical mile in any Korean records. The latter part of the text is trying to provide a dimension of the circumference (although there is a gross overestimation).
ReplyDeleteAs defined in 1902 measurement system of Korea, 1 ri = 1386 Ja, 1 Ja = 10/33 m. This leads to 1 ri = 420m. Maybe a minor correction to my numbers above, but in essence, the same. We are talking about a distance - a one dimensional number, not an area, which is a two-dimensional concept.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGerry,
ReplyDeleteI dont know why they calculate 1里 be about 0.2km on Detailed Ulleungdo maps. although authodox 1里 is about 0.4km.
But those detailed Ulluengdo map recogzization is same with other ulluengdo records.
In the geography writing regulation, they said not only "island distance from Korean peninsula" but also "area with four square distance.in 慶尚道地理誌" which the rule applies those records.
Ofcourse this 1900 document 合 means total diameter of Ulluengdo district, expressed by four distance which can assumed those Korean historical recognization of Ulluengdo which is not incrudes Liancourt Rocks.
Gerry Bevers,
ReplyDelete(Part 1)
You are distorting Hwangseong Newspaper article of 1906 by interpreting it as you like.
You wrote "the Japanese Resident-General asked the Korean Ministry of Interior to clarify what neighboring islands were part of of "Uldo County" (Ulleungdo County).
There's no such a word referring to "Uldo County" in the Hwangseong Newspaper article.
Hwangseong Newspaper article wrote:
"統監府에서 內部에 公函하되 江原道 三陟郡 管下에 所在 鬱陵島에 所属島嶼와 郡廳設始 年月을 示明하라는 故로 答函하되、光武二年五月二十日에 鬱陵島監으로 設始 하였다가 光武四年十月二十五日에 政府會議를 經由하야 郡守를 配置하니 郡廳은 台霞洞에 在하고 該郡所管島는 竹島石島오、東西가 六十里오 南北이 四十里니, 合 二百餘里라고 하였다더라."
Is there any Chinese character "鬱島" meaning "Uldo" or "鬱島郡" meaning "Uldo County"? No. You just added "Uldo County". What the Japanese Resident-General ask was about the Ulleongdo not Uldo County.
The Japanese Resident-General asked exactly what the islands under the administration of Ulleongdo and the Korean Interior Ministry answered about the Ulleongdo.
2. You wrote " The Korean ministry also gave the dimensions of Ulleungdo as being sixty ri from east to west and forty ri from north to south for a total of 200 ri. Since a Korean ri was 0.4 kilometers, that means Uldo County was defined as having an area of 24km x 16km."
Is there any word referring to "dimensions" in the above mentioned article ? No. You just added the word "dimensions", which is very distorting. The original text is "東西가 六十里오 南北이 四十里니, 合 二百餘里라고 하였다더라.(East-west is sixty ri and north- south is 40 ri, the total is 200ri.) This description has nothing to do with the dimension of Uldo County.
Sloww wrote:
ReplyDeleteThere's no such a word referring to "Uldo County" in the Hwangseong Newspaper article.
Are you kidding me? Look at the title of the article: "Facts on Arrangement of Uldo County" (鬱島郡의 配置顛末)
Sloww wrote:
Is there any word referring to "dimensions" in the above mentioned article ? No. You just added the word "dimensions", which is very distorting.
It said the "said county" (該郡) is "60 ri (24km) (24km) from east-to-west and 40 ri (16km) from north-to-south,...." Those are the demsions of the county.
Here is the translation of the article. Compare it to the Korean. It is translated exactly as it was written.
Facts on Arrangement of Uldo County
The Resident-General sent an official letter to the Interior Ministry asking it to clarify what islands belonged to Ulleungdo, which is under the administration of Samcheok County in Gangwon Province, and the year and month the county office was established. The response was that the post of Ulleungdo Administrator was established on May 20, 1898, and then on October 25, 1900, the government decided to post a county magistrate with the county office being at Daehadong (台霞洞). It said the islands under the authority of the said county were Jukdo (竹島) and Seokdo (石島), and that it was sixty ri from east to west and forty ri from north to south for a total of 200 ri.
鬱島郡의 配置顛末
統監府에서 內部에 公函하되 江原道 三陟郡 管下에 所在 鬱陵島에 所属島嶼와 郡廳設始 年月을 示明하라는 故로 答函하되、光武二年五月二十日에 鬱陵島監으로 設始 하였다가 光武四年十月二十五日에 政府會議를 經由하야 郡守를 配置하니 郡廳은 台霞洞에 在하고 該郡所管島는 竹島石島오、東西가 六十里오 南北이 四十里니, 合 二百餘里라고 하였다더라.
In addition,
ReplyDeleteThe Resident-General asked what islands belonged to Ulleungdo.
It shows that the Resident-General was interested in the range of Uldo County.
Gerry Bevers,
ReplyDelete“鬱島郡의 配置顛末” is the title of the article. The Japanese Resident-General asked what islands belonged to Ulleungdo, not what islands belonged to Uldo County.
Ulloengdo is a part of Uldo County, but distinguishing Ulloengdo from Uldo County is very important,in this case because it relates to the matter of how to interpret the last sentence.
The last sentence "東西가 六十里오 南北이 四十里니, 合 二百餘里라고 하였다더라.(It said east-west is 60ri and south-north is 40ri, the total is about 200ri.) is not related to the Uldo County. It's about the Ulleongdo which the Japanese Resident-General asked about.
As for the word "dimension" you used, I apology. I temporarily confused about the English word "dimension". Yes, it includes the measurement of length and width. And "ri" indicates the length. I'm sorry about it.
(Part 2)
ReplyDeleteThere's no any clue the last sentence "東西가 六十里오 南北이 四十里니, 合 二百餘里라고 하였다더라.(It said east-south is 60ri and south-north is 40ri, the total is about 200ri.)" indicates the dimension or area of the Uldo County. As I said before it's about the Ulleongdo itself because the Japanese Resident-General asked about Ulleongdo.
There's no possibility Korean Interior Ministry could exactly know the dimension or area of the Uldo County. What he gave the Japanese Resident-General was the description of Ulleongdo in the Korean records.
Korean geography book "朝鮮地誌(1895)“ wrote " 鬱陵島는 蔚珍에 在하니 周回이 二百余里니 東西이 六十余里오 南北이 四十余里라.( Ulleungdo is at Uljin. Its circumference is about 200 ri, east-west is about 60 ri and south-north is about 40 ri.)"
朝鮮地誌 (1895)
Also there are Korean maps of Ulleongdo describing Ulleongdo with the phrase "東西六十餘里南北四十餘里周二百餘里" meaning about 60ri east-west, about 40ri from south-north and a total of about 200 ri.
大東輿地圖
大東方輿圖
Whether the description in the Korean document and maps is correct or not is not an issue here. The Korea Ministry responded to the question from the Japan Resident-General about Ulleongdo and gave description of Ulleongdo from the Korean records.
Initially , in 2008, one Japanese netizen interpreted ""東西가 六十里오 南北이 四十里니, 合 二百餘里라고 하였다더라." as the description of jurisdictional area(管轄範囲) of Uldo County and concluded Dokdo was not included in the Ulldo County. Since then the pro-Japanese people seem to believe what he said. His interpretation of the article is wrong. His translation of the last part of the article is " 護郡所管島はチュク島と石島で、東西が六十里で南北が四十里なので,合せて二百余里だという". He added wrongly "で" next to the sentence " 該郡所管島는 竹島石島(It said the islands under the authority of the said county were Jukdo and Seokdo)" instead of Japanese letter equivalent to "오" which is the Korean ending word of the sentence. "で" is a conjunction, so that he interpreted as if the two sentences are related. The sentence "該郡所管島는 竹島石島오、" and "東西가 六十里오 南北이 四十里니, 合 二百餘里" are two separated sentences.
In conclusion, the Japanese Resident-General asked the Korean Interior Minsitry about what islands belonged to Ulleongdo and the year and month of the county was established. Korean Ministry answered accordingly and added the description of Ulleongd he cited from Korean records which has nothing to do with the dimension or area of Uldo County.
(Part 3)
ReplyDeleteGerry Bevers' argument Dokdo was not included in the Uldo County can be refuted by the Korean records. The following is the Korean responses to the illegal Japanese incorporation of Dokdo.
If Dokdo was not included in the Uldo County as he misleads, there couldn't be Korean responses to the illegal Japanese incorporation of Dokdo.
1. On March 28, 1905, Ulldo County Governor Shim heard Dokdo became Japanese territory from a Japanese party who unexpectedly visited Ulleongdo. He immediately reported the matter to the Gwangwon Province Governor Lee the following day stating "Dokdo belonging to this county is located in the sea 100 ri(百餘里)
from this county. ......a group of Japanese officials visited us and said Dokdo become Japanese territory....."
2. Gwangwon Province governor reported Governor Shim's report to the central government.
3. Shocked by Shim's report, Korean central government issued Order No.3(指令第三号) stating "...claiming Dokdo became Japan’s territory is absolutely groundless. Investigate the circumstances of the island and any Japanese activities and report again. (來報 閱悉이고 獨島領地之說은 全屬無根하나, 該島 形便과 日人 如何行動을 更爲査報 할 사.)
指令第三号
4.In spite of strict censorship from Military Police Corps of the Imperial Japanese Army(憲兵司令部) and the Japanese Resident- Genreal(統監府), Daehan Maeil Newspaper and Hwangseong Newspaper on May, 1906 protested the Japanese illegal incorporation of Dokdo by reporting Governor Shim's report.
Daehan Maeil Newspaper Article
In conclusion, Dokdo was definitely included in the Uldo County and Dokdo was Seokdo in Korean Edict No. 41.
(私の投稿が、消えてしまうので試験的に投稿してみます。)
ReplyDelete新聞記事の原文では、一行目の文字は、「公函」ではなく「公凾」ですね。
凾という字は、函の異体字ですから、内容解釈に変更はありません。