竹島問題の歴史

26.9.07

Koreans on Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo

In 1412, the governor of Korea's Gangwon province reported HERE that twelve people from Yusanguk-do (流山國島) sailed into and anchored at Eorajin (於羅津) in Goseong (高城). The governor said they said the following:

"We grew up on Muleungdo, where 11 families lived with a total of more than sixty men and women. Now we have moved to the main island and are living there. The island's distances from east to west and north to south are each two shik (60 ri), and its circumference is eight shik (240 ri). There are no cows or horses or rice paddies on the island, but if we plant just one mal of beans, we harvest twenty to thirty seok. If we plant one seok of barley, we harvest more than fifty seok. The bamboo are as big as rafters, and there are all kinds of sea products and fruit trees."

命議政府議處流山國島人。 江原道觀察使報云: “流山國島人白加勿等十二名, 求泊高城於羅津, 言曰: ‘予等生長武陵, 其島內人戶十一, 男女共六十餘, 今移居本島。 是島自東至西自南至北, 皆二息, 周回八息。 無牛馬水田, 唯種豆一斗出二十石或三十石, 麥一石出五十餘石; 竹如大椽; 海錯果木皆在焉。’ 竊慮此人等逃還, 姑分置于通州、高城、杆城。”
 
 
Notice that the people said they were from "Yusan-Guk Island," which was obviously an alternate spelling of "Usanguk Island." They said that more than sixty of them had grown up on Muleungdo (武陵島), but later moved to the "main island" (Usanguk Island). This was the first piece of evidence that Koreans lived on Ulleungdo's neighboring island.

Before the An Yong-bok incident in the 1690s, Korea's early maps of Ulleungdo generally showed Usando to be to the west of Ulleungdo, but after the An Yong-bok incident, Korean maps started mapping Usando as Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo. (See HERE.) These early maps tell us that for a certain period in the past Ulleungdo was called "Usando" and its neighboring island was called "Muleungdo" (Ulleungdo). The names later switched, however.

In a  September 2, 1416 record HERE, Korean official Bak Seup (朴習) said the following:

"When I was governor of Kangwon Province, I heard that Mu-leungdo had a circumference of seven sik and had a small island next to it. It had fifty kyeol of farmland and a narrow entryway that only allowed people to travel single file; they could not walk two abreast. A long time ago a man named Bak Ji-yong lead fifteen families to the island and lived there. I also heard that they would sometimes conspire with Japanese pirates and steal. There is a man in Samcheok who knows that island. Please ask him to go there and check."

庚寅/以金麟雨爲武陵等處安撫使。 戶曹參判朴習啓: “臣嘗爲江原道都觀察使, 聞武陵島周回七息, 傍有小島, 其田可五十餘結。 所入之路, 纔通一人, 不可竝行。 昔有方之用者率十五家入居, 時或假倭爲寇。 知其島者, 在三陟, 請使之往見。” 上可之, 乃召三陟人前萬戶金麟雨, 問武陵島事, 麟雨言: “三陟人李萬嘗往武陵而還, 詳知其島之事。” 卽召李萬。 麟雨又啓: “武陵島遙在海中, 人不相通, 故避軍役者, 或逃入焉。 若此島多接人, 則倭終必入寇, 因此而侵於江原道矣。” 上然之, 以麟雨爲武陵等處安撫使, 以萬爲伴人, 給兵船二隻、抄工二名、引海二名、火㷁火藥及糧, 往其島, 諭其頭目人以來。 賜麟雨及萬衣笠靴
Notice that the Korean official say that Muleungdo had a small neighboring island next to it that had fifty kyeol of farmland. He also said that the island had only a narrow entrance that only allowed people to travel in single file. This was obviously talking about Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo since there was only one path leading up onto the island. See the picture HERE. He also said that fifteen families used to live on the island, although it is unclear if he was referring to Ulleungdo or its neighboring island, but it did say that the neighboring island had a path leading up onto it, which suggests that people, at least, visited there and probably used it for farming.

An August 6, 1417 record HERE said, "Japanese pirates looted Usan and Muleung islands." (倭寇于山、武陵), which tells us that both islands had to have people living on them if they were looted.

In an August 30, 1479 record HERE, Korean official Kim Seung-gyeong (金升卿) told King Seongjong the following:
"Next to Sambongdo (三峯島 = Ulleungdo) there is a small island where two families, including that of Jeon Gun-ja (全君子), fled to and are living. If it looks like the people on the main island will refuse to assemble, we can take the two families on the small island before the people on Sambongdo realize it. Then we can appraise the situation before sending people to subjugate them. What do you think?",,,,

命召曾經政丞及府院君等, 御宣政殿, 引見, 又召永安道敬差官辛仲琚以入。 上曰: 三峯島人, 有拒敵官軍之勢, 欲與卿等議處置。” 左承旨金升卿啓曰: “三峯島旁有小島, 全君子等二戶, 逃居其中。 若募本道之人, 出其不意而往, 則可及三峯島人未覺之時, 取小島兩家矣。 然後審其形勢, 遣人討之何如? 鄭昌孫曰: “三峯島人, 無乃覺而來襲乎?” 上曰: “若然則官軍恐受辱矣。” 都承旨洪貴達啓曰: “五鎭人性, 本貪功, 賊若犯境, 欲使他境不知, 而自專其功, 若募以重賞, 必有取之者。” 辛仲琚言: “三峯水路, 五月九月風便海淸, 獨於此時可往。 若然則永安道, 道路遙隔, 今年九月, 似未及往也。” 昌孫曰: “若必入討, 則不可緩也。 若使彼人, 知我將討, 而有備, 則大不可也。” 上曰: “當大擧速討, 用戰卒一千五百若何?” 右副承旨蔡壽啓曰: “不須此數。 雖三四百可矣。 然北人皆用麻尙船, 蒼茫大海, 安可以麻尙船濟師哉? 且不識彼島地勢險夷, 居人多寡, 輕擧大軍, 以冒不測之險, 似未便。” 辛仲琚啓曰: “聞魚命山逃入時, 竊人哨麻船騎去矣。” 上曰: “水路幾日程, 其島泊船處有幾?” 仲琚對曰: “人言可二日程, 泊船處, 亦多有之。” 右承旨李瓊仝啓曰: “彼亦我國人, 安有拒敵官兵之理乎? 遣人招撫何如?” 上曰: “其人不事官役, 安業而居, 其肯來乎?” 洪貴達曰: “若招撫, 則非一端, 必開陳利害, 多方以誘之矣。 但今九月已迫, 戰艦諸事, 必不及辦, 待明年二三月遣之何如?” 上曰: “都承旨所言當矣。 此事終不可密, 今諭監司及節度使, 使備戰艦, 聲言大擧, 則彼或有歸服之理。” 僉曰: “上敎允當。”
In the above record, the Korean king and his officials were discussing ways to remove illegal settlers from "Sambongdo" (Ulleungdo), who they feared would not come peacefully. One official said there was a small, neighboring island with two families living on it. The small island was almost certainly Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo. The official suggested they take the small island first because it would give them a base near Ulleungdo where they would have time to appraise the situation.

A 1692 Japanese document HERE said that at about 5 o'clock in the morning of February 26, Japanese fishermen landed on a neighboring island of Ulleungdo called "Ika-shima" (イガ島). This 1724 Japanese map shows that "Ika-shima" (イガ島) was almost certainly Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo. On the island the Japanese found evidence that someone had been fishing for abalone there. On the morning of the next day (the 27th), the Japanese sailed on to the main island of Ulleungdo, where they met a Korean who told them the Koreans were at Ulleungdo fishing for abalone. This is evidence that both Koreans and Japanese were visiting and using Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo in 1692.

Today, Kim Gil-cheul (59) and his son live on the Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo. Mr. Kim has lived there for more than thirty years, in spite of there being no drinking water on the island. They have survived by collecting rain water. Mr. Kim said he moved to the island because he was hungry, and there were fields on the island where he could raise corn or potatoes. (See HERE ).

When Mr. Kim arrived on Jukdo, there were already three families living there. He said the other families on the island eventually left because the environment was so harsh, including the fact that they had to collect rain for their drinking water. According to a Japanese report HERE, a farmer was living on Jukdo even in 1930, and used a ladder to scale part of the path up onto the island. Also, according to this September 14, 2006 article from the Korean newspaper Silla Ilbo, at one time, four families with a total of thirty people lived on Jukdo. Here is the relevant portion of the Korean newspaper article:

죽도는 총면적 약6만 3000평으로 남북한 730m,동서쪽 400m로 울릉도 부속섬 106개중 가장 크며 도동 선착장에서 7km, 저동항에서 4km 북동쪽에 위치하고 있다. 죽도거주민은 한때 4가구 30명이 살았지만 지금은 김기철(67),유곤 한 부자가 거주하고 있으며 관광객 및 주민이 연간 2만명 정도가 다녀가는 울릉도 대표적인 관광의 섬이다.
Also, according to a March 9, 2001 article HERE, during Korea's colonial period, more than twenty families were said to have lived on Jukdo. Here is the relevant portion of the article:
저동항에서 동북쪽으로 십 리쯤 떨어진 바다에 떠 있는 207,869㎡(62,880평)의 작은 섬 죽도,일제시대에는 20여 호가 거주하였다고 하나 지금은 단 한 가구만이 거주할 뿐인 유인도.
About ten ri northeast of Jeodong Harbor, there is a small island on the sea called Jukdo [207, 869 sq. meters (62,880 pyeong). During Japanese rule, it is said that more than twenty families lived on the island, but now there is only one family.
In regard to the cliffs on Jukdo, , Kyoto Imperial University lecturer and geologist (京都帝大講師) Harumoto Atuo (春本篤夫氏は) went to Ulleungdo's Jukdo in 1930 (昭和五年) while he was conducting an on-site survey of Ulleungdo (欝陵島の実地調査を行った際). Here is what he said:
「竹島は周回二キロ、最高一〇五メートルの小島で周囲は完全に一〇〇メートルに近い直立の岸壁で囲まれ、一箇所絶壁に木梯を架し、壁間の空洞を利用してはんじ登ることができる。上は平坦で畑があり、農夫の一家族が住んでいる。人戯れに呼んで竹島の島司という」
"Chukdo is an islet with a circumference of two kilometers and a height of 105 meters at the highest point. It is completely surrounded by 100-meter vertical cliffs, but there is one spot where it is possible to set up a ladder and use the crevices in the cliff to climb up. The top is flat, and there is a field. A farmer lives there with his family. People half-jokingly call him the magistrate of the land. "
When people tell you that no one lived on or could not have lived on Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo because the cliffs were too steep or because there was no drinking water, you now know that they are either ignorant of the facts or are trying to deceive you with lies.

By the way, the 1794 Korean document to which Non-anonymous (Toadface) keeps referring said the following about three islands called Bangbaedo (防牌島), Jukdo (竹島), and Ongdo (瓮島):
前有三島, 在北曰防牌島, 在中曰竹島, 在東曰瓮島。 三島相距, 不過百餘步, 島之周回, 各爲數十把, 險巖嵂屼, 難以登覽,

또 그 앞에 세 개의 섬이 있는데, 북쪽의 것은 방패도(防牌島), 가운데의 것은 죽도(竹島), 동쪽의 것은 옹도(瓮島)이며, 세 섬 사이의 거리는 1백여 보(步)에 불과하고 섬의 둘레는 각각 수십 파(把)씩 되는데, 험한 바위들이 하도 쭈뼛쭈뼛하여 올라가 보기가 어려웠습니다.

Also, there were three islands in front. Bangpaedo (防牌島) was the northern island, Jukdo (竹島) the middle, and Ongdo (翁島) was to the east. The distance between the three islands was only about 100 paces, and the circumference of each was tens of pa (把). The rocks were so steep and towering that climbing to the top and looking was (would be) difficult.
First, notice that the passage did not say the rocks "couldn't be climbed," as Non-Anonymous (Toadface) said HERE. Second, we do not know which rocks were being talked about since there were three islands involved. Third, it said that there was a hundred paces separating each of the three islands, which we know would not be true in the case of Jukdo since Jukdo is about two kilometers from the nearest island.

I warn people to take what Non-Anonymous (Toadface) says with a big grain of salt because, as I have shown above, he is either lying or is ignorant of the facts when he says or suggests that no one did or could live on Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo.

Usando was not Liancourt Rocks. It was the old name for Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo, and Koreans used to live there and still do.

19 comments:

  1. Great post!

    Apparently Usando was not Liancourt rocks.

    I think many Korean scholars know the fact but they can't say a word because of the anti-Japan propaganda. I hope the day will come when they will speak their thought freely.

    ReplyDelete
  2. not anonymous27/9/07 14:34

    Gerry, you are absolutely right on the 1794 document and I'm going to change it right away. But you are knowingly ignoring some important facts.

    It was Leegyuwon who stated in his inspection that Jukdo couldn't be climbed. This was in 1882.

    In 1902 the Report on Ulleungdo stated nobodly lived on Jukdo Islet because of lack of fresh water.

    Comparing the fact that some people lived on Jukdo in 1930 to the 17th Century is a nonsensical analogy. In 1930 water supplies could be brought up on steel cables (like today) they had winches, motors etc.

    But a better question is why bother? We know the Japanese moored near Jukam where there was a beach and fresh water. Lots of mooring, fresh water, fuel (wood) animals for food, farmland was about 2.2kms away. So why bother humping up a 30 storey (100 meter) vertical rock to do so? The truth is, they didn't.

    Jukdo wall 1

    Jukdo wall 2

    Jukdo wall 3

    There is no path to Jukdo Gerry. There is a massive cement vertical sprial staircase running up the side.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Non-anonymous wrote:

    There is no path to Jukdo Gerry. There is a massive cement vertical sprial staircase running up the side.

    Stop acting stupid, Toadface. The stairs on Jukdo were built in the 1990s for the convenience of tourists, but people were living on the island before then, which means there was a path onto the island. In fact, the 1416 Korean document I referred to in my post said there was a narrow path onto the island. I do not understand why you keep insisting there was no path?

    Just look at your picture of the stairs on Jukdo that you linked to. It is obvious that the side of the cliff was cut out to build them, they were almost certainly built over the old path.

    There may not have been anyone living on Jukdo in 1902, but there were people living on Jukdo on the other dates I mentioned, which means the island was and is habitable, unlike Liancourt Rocks, where there is no soil to grow food.

    Please post a link to the Lee Gyu-won document that said "Jukdo couldn't be climbed."

    ReplyDelete
  4. Non-Anonymous,

    Here is a September 14, 2006 article from the Korean newspaper, Silla Ilbo (신라일보), which says, "At one time, "four families with a total of thirty people" lived on the Jukdo. Here is the complete text of the Korean article:

    [신라일보 9.14] 울릉-죽도선착장 수중 폐자재 천지

    울릉도 부속 도서 중 유인도면서 가장 큰 죽도 선착장 앞 수중에 난간공사 및 계단공사에 사용된것으로 보이는 폐자재들이 바닷속에 무단방치 되고있다.

    죽도 선착장 앞에서 울릉도 섬목 방향으로 수심 7.5m부터 22m 수심에 가로 약120m 정도로 넓게 포진되어 있는 폐자재는 스텐파이프 비롯한 철근과 콘크리트 골재(지름 2.0-2.5 cm) 전선 등이 수중 암반들 사이에 무단 방치되어 있다.

    스텐파이프의 굵기는 지름 약10cm내외며 길이는 1m부터3m 짜리까지 다양한 크기들로 계단 공사 및 난간공사에 사용된 것으로 추정되며, 건설현장에서 사용하는 비계파이프와 미장할 때 쓰여진 통으로 보이는 통들과 휘어지고 잘려진 철근 등이 수중에 광범위하게 버려져 있다.

    죽도는 총면적 약6만 3000평으로 남북한 730m,동서쪽 400m로 울릉도 부속섬 106개중 가장 크며 도동 선착장에서 7km, 저동항에서 4km 북동쪽에 위치하고 있다. 죽도거주민은 한때 4가구 30명이 살았지만 지금은 김기철(67),유곤 한 부자가 거주하고 있으며 관광객 및 주민이 연간 2만명 정도가 다녀가는 울릉도 대표적인 관광의 섬이다.

    1998년도까지 27억 투자, 민자5억을 유치하여 총32억 들여 진입로,선착장 등 부대시설 공사를 하였으며 금년 초에 전기자가발전을 위해 풍력발전기를 포함한 발전시설을 준공하였다.

    죽도폐자재를 처음 발견하고 본지에 제보한 김모양(서울거주. 26살) 은 “우리나라 안에서 최고의 스킨-스쿠버 다이빙 수중 환경인 울릉도에 가장 많은 사람들이 찾는 죽도 수중에 건축 폐자재가 왜 있는지 모르겠다”며 “다음에 올땐 이런 폐자재가 안보였으면 좋겠다” 고 말했다.

    울릉= 조준호 기자(seeman2@hanmail.net)

    ReplyDelete
  5. Non-Anonymous,

    Below is a March 9, 2001 Korean article that says that during Korea's colonial period, more than twenty families lived on Ulleungdo's Jukdo. Here is the relevant part of the article:

    저동항에서 동북쪽으로 십 리쯤 떨어진 바다에 떠 있는 207,869㎡(62,880평)의 작은 섬 죽도,일제시대에는 20여 호가 거주하였다고 하나 지금은 단 한 가구만이 거주할 뿐인 유인도.

    About ten ri northeast of Jeodong Harbor, there is a small island on the sea called Jukdo [207, 869 sq. meters (62,880 pyeong)]. During Japanese rule, it is said that more than twenty families lived on the island, but now there is only one family.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Non-Anonymous (Toadface),

    Where is the link to the Lee Gyu-won document that said "Jukdo couldn't be climbed"? Are you still trying to find it? Or are you just being quiet because you did not expect someone to ask you to back up your claim?

    ReplyDelete
  7. not anonymous30/9/07 00:45

    Gerry, probably the best record we have is the 1902 record that says Japanese didn't live on Jukdo. It agrees with some basic principles with regard to water requirements and sustained inhabitability.

    One of my memorable life experiences was annually deer hunting at my father's cottage in the sticks years ago. This cottage had everything but you guessed it, running water. Anyone who has lived in a place without access to potable running water will tell you what an incredible pain in the ass it is. Large jugs of water are used up very quickly. It was a shock to see how much water we consume every day, even when we use it sparingly.

    I can't image more than 80 people living on a 100 high meter rock with no fresh running water. I think I mentioned once to Gerry the minimum requirements of fresh water needed to sustain a healthy living standard. Here is an intersting article regardng basic water daily water needs. Could people hundreds of years ago gather the amount of water needed to live on Jukdo Islet? No, I don't think so.

    water needs

    water needs2

    It is very conservative estimate to say a person need around 10 liters of water a day just for an existence survival. That means over 800 liters a day. One liter of water weighs about 1kg. Imagine lugging 800kgs of water per day up an almost vertical wall of rock during times when rain wasn't plentiful. Also, how would these people gather 800 liters per day 400 years ago? Putting out some ceramic jugs or pots wouldn't cut it. Korean rooftops were thatched, not a sufficient method at all..

    Yes, Ulleungdo gets a good dose of rainfall during the rainy season and winter snowfall. However, the rest of the year it Ulleungdo gets little more rain than the rest of the peninsula. This means earlier people would have to slog water up this huge wall which I find it impossible to believe.

    I don't doubt that in the mid-20th Century people lived on Jukdo Islet because they had the technology and materials to properly collect and store water. They could also use steel cables to winch up materials or supplies. They couldn't do this centuries before. In the 20th Century they probably used coal blocks for fuel or oil and winched up building necessities. They may have made a steel ladder or steel staircase. They could also bring up food staples. Earlier people didn't have these options..


    Gerry, the translation in my book, states that Mulleungdo has 50 kyeol of farmland, and a path leading onto it. It does not say the little island next to Mulleungdo has this path or land. It also doesn't make clear if there "little islands" or a "little island" as well. You might want to double-check your translation on that document.

    Here is a link to Leegyuwon's diary translated into Korean. Personally, I would like to see it in its original form.

    Leegyuwon

    ReplyDelete
  8. Non-Anonymous wrote:

    Gerry, probably the best record we have is the 1902 record that says Japanese didn't live on Jukdo. It agrees with some basic principles with regard to water requirements and sustained inhabitability.

    Are you serious, Non-Anonymous? So what if no Japanese were living on Ulleungdo's Jukdo in 1902, which, by the way, was before Japan even annexed Korea, there are two Koreans living there now, and at least one of them has been living there for more than thirty years. Moreover, he said that when he got to the island, there were already families living there. Didn't you read the above Korean article that said, "At one time, four families with thirty people lived on Jukdo." Here is the quote:

    죽도거주민은 한때 4가구 30명이 살았지만 지금은 김기철(67),유곤 한 부자가 거주하고 있으며....

    That alone proves that your water theory is nothing but crap in regard to Jukdo, but another Korean article HERE said that more than twenty families were said to have lived on the island during Korea's colonial period. Here is the quote:

    저동항에서 동북쪽으로 십 리쯤 떨어진 바다에 떠 있는 207,869㎡(62,880평)의 작은 섬 죽도,일제시대에는 20여 호가 거주하였다고 하나 지금은 단 한 가구만이 거주할 뿐인 유인도.

    Non-Anonymous wrote:

    Also, how would these people gather 800 liters per day 400 years ago? Putting out some ceramic jugs or pots wouldn't cut it. Korean rooftops were thatched, not a sufficient method at all..

    Obviously, you did not, or could not, read the Korean article I posted above. Here is a quote from the article:

    섬 가운데로는 비교적 넓은 면적에 출입을 통제하는 철책이 둘러쳐져 있었는데, 알고 보니 빗물을 모아 식수를 만드는 집수정이었다. 물이 나지 않는 섬의 삶의 방법이었다.

    In the middle of the island, there was a relatively wide area that was fenced off to the public. I learned that this was the "water-gathering pond" (집수정), where rain is gathered for drinking water. This was how people lived on islands with no water.


    Notice that is says they used a pond to gather rainwater, not thatched roofs.

    Non-Anonymous wrote:

    Gerry, the translation in my book, states that Mulleungdo has 50 kyeol of farmland, and a path leading onto it. It does not say the little island next to Mulleungdo has this path or land. It also doesn't make clear if there "little islands" or a "little island" as well. You might want to double-check your translation on that document.

    If that is true, then your translation is wrong. Just use some common sense and think about it for a moment, Toadface. It said that there was only one path onto the island that was so narrow that people had to walk single file. Is there only one path onto Ulleungdo? No, but there is only one path onto Jukdo. Also, the farmland and path were mentioned right after the small island was mentioned. Here is the original Chinese:

    “臣嘗爲江原道都觀察使, 聞武陵島周回七息, 傍有小島, 其田可五十餘結。 所入之路, 纔通一人, 不可竝行。

    "When I was governor of Kangwon Province, I heard that Mu-leungdo had a circumference of seven sik and had a small island next to it. It had fifty kyeol of farmland and a narrow entryway that only allowed people to travel single file; they could not walk two abreast. A long time ago a man named Bak Ji-yong lead fifteen families to the island and lived there. I also heard that they would sometimes conspire with Japanese pirates and steal. There is a man in Samcheok who knows that island. Please ask him to go there and check."

    Since there are numerous paths onto Ulleungdo, but only one onto Jukdo, and since the description followed right after the mention of the "small island," it makes more sense that the description was of the small island, not of Ulleungdo.

    By the way, the person who translated that record at the National Institute of Korean History claims HERE that the small island was Dokdo. Here is what he said in his notes on the translation:

    [註 3961] 무릉도(武陵島) : 울릉도(鬱陵島)를 말하는데, 그 옆의 소도(小島)는 분명히 독도(獨島)를 가리키는 사료(史料)임.

    [Note 3961] Muleungdo : It is referring to Ulleungdo. The small island to the side is obviously a historical reference to Dokdo."


    Notice how they are so blinded by Dokdo nationalism that they cannot see anything else.

    Non-Anonymous wrote:

    Here is a link to Leegyuwon's diary translated into Korean. Personally, I would like to see it in its original form.

    On your Web site HERE, you have the Chinese character version of Lee Gyu-won's diary, don't you? Isn't that a copy of the original?

    Anyway, here is the relevant portion of Lee Kyu-won's diary from your very own Web site:

    南邊洋中 有二小島 形如臥牛 而左右回旋 勢若相抱 一曰竹島 一曰島項 只有叢竹而已 日暮 下陸 結幕止宿於竹岩下

    In the sea to the south (南邊洋中), there were two small islands (有二小島) shaped like cows lying down (形如臥牛). And sailing around them (而左右回旋), it was like they were hugging each other (勢若相抱). One was called Jukdo (一曰竹島). One was called Dohang (一曰島項). There was nothing but bamboo groves (只有叢竹而已). The sun was going down (日暮), so we got off the boat, (下陸) put together a shelter (結幕), and spent the night below Jukam (止宿於竹岩下).


    I am no expert on Chinese writing, but I understand enough to know that nothing was said about Jukdo being too dangerous to climb in the Chinese version of his diary on your Web site. I do not know where the Korean translation came from, but it is not a translation of the Chinese version you have posted on your site.

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  9. not anonymous30/9/07 14:11

    Gerry quotes:

    "...When people tell you that no one lived on or could not have lived on Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo because the cliffs were too steep or because there was no drinking water, you now know that they are either ignorant of the facts or are trying to deceive you with lies...."

    However on your own website can be found:
    "Daetseom" (テツセミ島) is located offshore in front of Wadalli (臥達里), and Japanese residents call the island "Takeshima"(竹島). The circumference of the island is about thirty chou (三拾丁余). "Metake" bamboo(女竹) grows thick there, but since there is no drinking water, it is said that there are no people living on the island.

    No water no life

    It's clear up to at least 1902 there was no such method for gathering water on Jukdo Islet. Why do you ignore your own historical documents Gerry? A clear historical record from 1902 states that Jukdo had no fresh water is right on your own website. Yet, you say anyone who believes no one lived there was "ignorant" or "deceitful"...

    Rather you cite ancient 600 year old ambiguous Chosun records based on the second-hand heresay of a governor who had never even been to Ulleungdo. Then you fill in your own blanks by assuming Ulleungdo had many paths in 1412? This is another Gerry Bevers classic.

    Gerry, calm down and read what I posted again. I've never stated people didn't live on Jukdo Islet in the 1930s. But this was a very different time from the middle ages. Numerous technological advances made in the 20th Century could have made is possible. With regard to the "pond" I'm betting this "pond" is more of a basin with a cement bottom. Drinking brackish stagnant pond water would make you a sick as a dog, especially in the summer.

    Yes I have two different translations of the Leekyuwon survey. I'm really not sure to go with it until I see the original text. The Chinese text I have is from My Coree's website.

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  10. toadface,

    You wrote; "ancient 600 year old ambiguous Chosun records based on the second-hand heresay of a governor who had never even been to Ulleungdo".

    Then why do you, pro-Korean people, keep insisting that Korea knew or owned Liancourt rocks?

    Wasn't it the basis of your insist that the old record that Korea knew Liancourt rocks (although truth is that it wasn't Liancourt rocks)?

    Or do you admit that Korea didn't know about Liancourt rocks until early 20th century?

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  11. Non-Anonymous wrote:

    It's clear up to at least 1902 there was no such method for gathering water on Jukdo Islet. Why do you ignore your own historical documents Gerry? A clear historical record from 1902 states that Jukdo had no fresh water is right on your own website. Yet, you say anyone who believes no one lived there was "ignorant" or "deceitful"...

    The 1902 document said there was no fresh water on Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo, but it did not say, "there was no such method for gathering water on Jukdo Islet." These kinds of statements are precisely why people call you a liar, Non-anonymous (Toadface), and why I call you deceitful.

    Non-anonymous wrote:

    Rather you cite ancient 600 year old ambiguous Chosun records based on the second-hand heresay of a governor who had never even been to Ulleungdo. Then you fill in your own blanks by assuming Ulleungdo had many paths in 1412? This is another Gerry Bevers classic.

    What do you have to say about the 1412 document, which quotes people from Yusanguk-do (Ulleungdo), who said that they were part of a group of sixty people who lived on Muleungdo (neighboring island) but later moved to the main island (Ulleungdo)? Their testimony is not second-hand.

    What do you have to say about the 1479 Korean document that said the following:

    "Next to Sambongdo (三峯島 = Ulleungdo) there is a small island where two families, including that of Jeon Gun-ja (全君子), fled to and are living. If it looks like the people on the main island will refuse to assemble, we can take the two families on the small island before the people on Sambongdo realize it. Then we can appraise the situation before sending people to subjugate them. What do you think?"

    The 1692 Japanese document said that Japanese landed on Ulleungdo's neighboring island of "Ika-shima" (イガ島), which a 1724 Japanese map shows HERE to be, almost certainly, Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo. What do you have to say about that?

    Non-Anonymous wrote:

    Gerry, calm down and read what I posted again. I've never stated people didn't live on Jukdo Islet in the 1930s. But this was a very different time from the middle ages. Numerous technological advances made in the 20th Century could have made is possible. With regard to the "pond" I'm betting this "pond" is more of a basin with a cement bottom. Drinking brackish stagnant pond water would make you a sick as a dog, especially in the summer.

    Ponds for collecting rainwater was not a 20th century invention and requires no "technological advancements." Here is a quote from an article entitled, "Conservationalists Find New Ways to Address India's Water Crisis":

    Sunita Narain, the center's director, says that historically, rainwater was never allowed to go waste in India, where in many regions it rains in short, sharp spells for less than one hundred hours a year. In earlier times, rain was captured in ponds, tanks and aquifers and kept for a dry day.

    "Just think about it, one hectare of land, a hundred milliliters of rainfall gives you a million liters of water," she calculated. "Which means the challenge in India is when it rains, where it rains, you have to make sure you hold it and that really was the principle of the past…. That would mean re-creating rainwater harvesting in every house of India."


    Today, Koreans on Ulleungdo are living off water collected in a rainwater pond, yet you are suggesting that it cannot be done. Also, notice that the article talked about using rainwater that seeps into the ground, which would be an natural filtering method. Maybe, the pond on Ulleungdo is not really a pond, but, instead, is a well that collects the rainwater that seeps into the ground there. Moreover, even the Korean article said that the pond-collection method was a method used my people who lived on islands with no water.

    Non-anonymous wrote:

    Yes I have two different translations of the Leekyuwon survey. I'm really not sure to go with it until I see the original text. The Chinese text I have is from My Coree's website.

    Yes, and neither of the documents said that it was "impossible to climb" Jukdo. Here is what you wrote:

    Secondly Jukdo Islet is a 100 meter block of stone that is Koreans described as impossible to climb on at least 2 historical records.

    You have already conceded that the 1794 document did not say it was "impossible to climb" Jukdo, so now I think it is time for you to concede that Lee Gyu-won did not say it, either.

    ReplyDelete
  12. I have added the following to my post:
    -------------

    In regard to the cliffs on Jukdo, , Teikoku University professor (京都帝大講師) Harumoto Atuo (春本篤夫氏は) went to Ulleungdo's Jukdo in 1930 (昭和五年) while he was conducting an on-spot survey of Ulleungdo (欝陵島の実地調査を行った際). Here is what he said:

    「竹島は周回二キロ、最高一〇五メートルの小島で周囲は完全に一〇〇メートルに近い直立の岸壁で囲まれ、一箇所絶壁に木梯を架し、壁間の空洞を利用してはんじ登ることができる。上は平坦で畑があり、農夫の一家族が住んでいる。人戯れに呼んで竹島の島司という」

    "Chukdo is an islet with a circumference of two kilometers and a height of 105 meters at the highest point. A ladder is set up against one part of the precipice , and by using cavities on the precipice, one can climb up. The top is flat, and there is a field. A farmer lived there with his family. People half-jokingly call him the magistrate of the land."

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  13. Teikoku University professor (京都帝大講師)
    should be...
    Kyoto Imperial University lecturer (京都帝大講師)

    He was a geologist and it looks like he was an expert of the geology of Chugoku area of Japan and eastern side of Korean. This is one of his academic journals of Choson geology.
    春本篤夫, 1958, 朝鮮吉州明川地域の玄武岩.鈴木醇教授還暦記念論文集,227-237. (Japanese)

    Your(?) translation lacks the part
    "周囲は完全に一〇〇メートルに近い直立の岸壁で囲まれ、一箇所".
    So maybe, the sentence
    "It is completely surrounded by the vertical cliff of 100metre high, but there is one spot that makes possible to set up a ladder..." should be added before the ladder sentence. Sorry for may poor English..

    ReplyDelete
  14. Thank you, Kaneganese. I have made the corrections to the translation.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Gerry Bevers,

    Jukdo is not Dokdo.

    Dokdo is Dokdo~!

    ReplyDelete
  16. only true,

    Did you know that the name Dokdo was created in the 20th century? Until then, Korean people didn't even know about the island.
    The first Koreans who reached Dokdo (Liancourt Rocks) were, according to the record, fishermen who were hired by Japanese to catch sealions there and it was early 20th century.

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  17. pacifist // According to what kinda record? Please specify citation if you can. It seems the information you based and I based are different apparently.
    1905 Shimane Prefecture Notification has no effect on territorial claim, because it was not only explicitly expressed but also it was 'creeping' policy. The next document Japan claimed Dokdo (or Liancourt 'Rocks' or whatever) as its territory was Japanese Foreign Affairs Ministry Note on 1962.7.13, claiming Dokdo is belong to Japan as historic title or original title. BUT, to claim such original or historic title in international legal view, that Dokdo must be Japan's land when the state Japan is established. But ... do you think so? Did early Japan knew Dokdo and consider it as their territory? From Oki Island(which belongs to Japan in East Sea(or Sea of Japan or whatever)), it is even NOT shown.

    I admit this potential 'dispute' is not settled yet, but, for now, there's no evidence of Japan to reverse this situation that Korea has effective control over Dokdo. If there's any state happily agreeing to bring a territory claim over their sovereign territory (at least 50+ year), I will happily call the state lame. Then is this situation injust?

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  18. Dear Yoon-shi,

    Thanks for your comment.

    There are some documents in Shimane prefecture that Japanese fishermen fron Oki islands began sealion hunting in the 1880's or 1890's. After that, sealion hunting became popular among fishermen in Oki and Nakai Yozaburo came into the business in the early 20th century. According to Nakai, the man named Iwasaki, who came from Yamaguchi prefecture, was the Japanese who hired Korean people from Ulleungdo to catch sealions in 1904.

    I haven't got the document by Nakai here but it was noted in this website:
    http://www.geocities.jp/tanaka_kunitaka/takeshima/

    By the way, there is a famous photo of Japanese fishermen with Korean fishermen and Korean women who caught seaweeds at Liancourt Rocks, although it was taken in 1920's (I think), which can be seen in somewhere in Shimane prefecture's website.
    The photo gives us a feeling that Korean people who were hired by Japanese worked together with Japanese in a friendly atmosphere.

    You wrote; "1905 Shimane Prefecture Notification has no effect on territorial claim, because it was not only explicitly expressed but also it was 'creeping' policy".

    According to the international law, the country who discovered, occupied (先占) and controlled has the sovereignty over the island.

    The island was discovered (re-discovered) and occupied by Japanese people in the 1880's or 1890's and huts were built by Japanese people by 1904. Japanese government made sure that the island was not owned by any other countries (including Korea) before and made it Japanese territory and incorporated it in Shimane prefecture.

    These procedure was a lawful deed under the internatonal laws.

    If you refute, you must prove that Korea discovered and occupied and controlled the island before Japan did (it means before 1905) - but as you may notice, there is no such evidence. Some one may had seen the island from Ulleungdo but they couldn't reach the island. Korean people kept insisting that Usando was Liancourt Rocks and they occupied and controlled the island before Japanese did but as you know now, Usando was not Liancourt Rocks - it was Ulleungdo at first and became the name of the island next to Ulleungdo (today's Jukdo).
    Actually Korea has no maps of Liancourt Rocks, no documents to prove that they reached the island.

    So it was the lawful deed for Japan to incorporate the island.

    You also wrote; "The next document Japan claimed Dokdo (or Liancourt 'Rocks' or whatever) as its territory was Japanese Foreign Affairs Ministry Note on 1962.7.13, claiming Dokdo is belong to Japan as historic title or original title. BUT, to claim such original or historic title in international legal view, that Dokdo must be Japan's land when the state Japan is established. But ... do you think so? Did early Japan knew Dokdo and consider it as their territory? From Oki Island(which belongs to Japan in East Sea(or Sea of Japan or whatever)), it is even NOT shown".

    I can't understand what you are saying, but Japan knew and used Liancourt Rocks at least from the 17th century- as the rocks were located in the route to Ulleungdo where Japanese people thought Japan's land too. (But think it over, Korean people who went to Ulleungdo had no reason to go to Liancourt Rocks that were located far eastern from Ulleungdo. It is natural that they had no interest in such rocks in the sea.)

    As the new government of Meiji was created, the record of Liancourt Rocks was lost. The western map technique was introduced and there had a turmoil in the names of islands because of western maps. So they needed to investigate the islands and found the truth that old Takeshima became Matsushima (Dagelet, Ulleungdo) and old Matsushima was renamed by the western people as Liancourt Rocks. So they had to "re-discover" the island and re-named it as (New) Takeshima in 1905.

    You wrote; "I admit this potential 'dispute' is not settled yet, but, for now, there's no evidence of Japan to reverse this situation that Korea has effective control over Dokdo. If there's any state happily agreeing to bring a territory claim over their sovereign territory (at least 50+ year), I will happily call the state lame. Then is this situation injust?"

    Reverse the situation? Effective control?
    No, you have a wrong view. It is not "effectively" controlled by Korea. It is simply occupied unlawfully. As the international laws direct, only the country who discovered, occupied and controlled has the right to own the land - but it was Japan who occupied and controlled. If some othet country occupied it by the means of power, it is not recognised as a lawful deed. Rhee Syngman's Korea just occupied it by force - Japan refuted soon after the occupation and she is still sending the refutation note every year, so the sovereignty over the island is still in the hands of the righteous owner, Japan.

    As you know, USA advised Rhee Syngman to give it back to Japan because his deed was unlawful. But Rhee didn't listen to USA.

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  19. Pacifist wrote:

    "These procedure was a lawful deed under the internatonal laws."

    The procedures of Japanese incorportation of Dokdo in 1905 you told here is not lawful at all even to the eyes of the people who don't know the international laws.


    1. "The island was discovered (re-discovered) and occupied by Japanese people in the 1880's or 1890's?"

    --> Who discovered Dokdo? Dokdo couldn't be discovered or re-discovered in 1880's or 1890's. It's the Korean island where Japanese fishermen passed by or stopped by on the way to Ulleongdo for illegal fishing activities for long time. How could it be discovered or re-discoverd in the 1880's or 1890's? Japan in 1905 lied as if Dokdo was newly found island to justify Japan's incorporation of Dokdo.

    2."... huts were built by Japanese people by 1904?"

    -->What kind of hurts do you mean? Nakai Yozaburo's hut for fishery (漁舍)? You are likely to mislead this hut is the evidence of Japanese effective control on Dokdo. It's just nonsense. "Nakai Yozaburo lived there?" "No" Nakai Yozaburo's temporary illegal fishing activity in foreign land building a hut for fishery (漁舍) has nothing to do with effective control on land.

    3. Japanese government made sure that the island was not owned by any other countries (including Korea) before?

    -->Japanese government didn't say "the islands was not owned by any other countries. It said exactly "There were no any traces of occupation by any other countries". There was abundant evidence then Dokdo was being occupied by Korea. Japanese government didn't follow even the minimum procedure by not notifying Korea about its incorporation of Dokdo. Japanese government surely didn't want Korea to know its greedy ilegal act of stealing its neighboring country's land.


    When Nakai Yozaburo submitted "Request for Territorial Incorporation of Liancourt Island and Its Lease", Japanese Ministry of Interior rejected his request saying:

    " The gains would be extremely small while the situation would become grave by acquiring a barren islet suspected of being Korean territory during this war time with Russia. It would amplify the suspicions of various foreign countries that Japan had an ambition to annex Korea."


    What gains Japan is expecting by claiming territorial right to Dokdo which is being effectively controlled by Korea today? Does Japan really believe Japan can take away Dokdo from Korea as Japan illegally did before? It's mysterious.

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