Dokdo-or-Takeshima?: "Rie Akiba angers Korean netizens with Dokdo"

4.2.10

"Rie Akiba angers Korean netizens with Dokdo"

According to THIS ARTICLE, Korean "netizens" are angry at Rie Akiba over a comment she made about "Dokdo." Rie is the Japanese member of a panel of foreign women that are featured on a weekly Korean talk show. The women are asked their opinions on a variety of topics generally concerning Korea. The women respond in Korean with varying degrees of fluency.

Rie said that when she is asked her opinion on "Dokdo," she usually dodges the question by turning it around and asking the questioner his or her opinion, instead. She also asks why he or she has that opinion and where the questioner got the opinion.

The best answer Rie could have given would have been, "I don't want to talk about Dokdo," but the second best answer was probably the one she gave because if a foreigner gives an opinion different from the Korean opinion on Dokdo, the foreigner is generally crucified in Korea. If Rie had not said anything more about Dokdo, I think she would have been all right, but she added the following:

I have actually done some research on Dokdo. Korea first found it, but I cannot say for sure which country it belongs to. Korean people first found it, but the first people to name it were the Japanese.

First, there is no evidence to suggest that Koreans were the first to find "Dokdo." All the evidence shows that the Japanese were the first to both find and name the island, which was first named "Matsushima" and later "Takeshima." Second, there are maps and documents proving that the Japanese were visiting "Dokdo" (Takeshima) as far back as the 1600s, but Korea has no evidence of Koreans visiting the island before the Japanese started taking them there on Japanese fishing boats in the early 1900s. Also, the Korean name for the island, "Dokdo," does not appear before the early 1900s.

If Rie had really researched the isssue, then I cannot understand how she could come to the conclusion that Koreans were the first to find Dokdo. Did she use Korean or Japanese sources? Is the history really that poorly explained in Japan?

I wonder if Rie really believes that "Dokdo" (Takeshima) was first found by Korea or if she only said that in a failed attempt to be diplomatic and avoid crucifixion?

Another member of the talk show panel, Canadian Dominique Noel, defends Rie Akiba against Korean netizens on her Web site. See HERE.

10 comments:

Kaneganese4/2/10 19:48
I don't know anything about her, but those two girls are very brave and beautiful. I'm sick of "netizens" bash people who says disagreeable things to their ear. What about other ordinary Korean's opinion? I think Korean should stop being frog in the well, grow up and get ready for admit that there are many opinions against their belief in the great ocean. I hope Korean realize that Japanese has to be allowed to have their own claim on Takeshima.

Not only the girl, but also journalists and even academic researchers are ignorant of the history of Takeshima in Japan. That why I started to think I should do more to improve this miserable situation. As for her not knowing of Takeshima was found by Japanese first, it is probably because she heard Korean chant they had owned Usan(do) from 512. But I don't know why she said Japanese were the first who named the island, which is true though Korean doesn't know. I guess her knowledge is mixture of both sources.

Anyway, her ignorance mainly comes from Education in Japan. Japanese teachers in elementary schools and junior high school were not instructed by the Ministry of Education to teach kids about Takeshima in the classroom, while it is clearly depicted as the Japanese territory in the geography text. I hope the situation would change from now on since they are supposed to teach about territory including Takeshima from this year.
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김모씨5/2/10 14:17
How surprising.

Kaneganese, Japan's Shimane Prefecture and MOFA errand boy supports this hello Kitty girl and her wall-flower sidekick.

The issue of naming the islet nor its original founder is not the key but rather ownership of the islets.

In an acedemic study of Korean and Japanese historical study Japan clearly ceded the islands to Korea during the Edo Era.

Dokdo-Is-Korean">

Sorry Hello Kitty Girl
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take_85915/2/10 17:58
dokdo-takeshima.com　様。
私は、英語が読めません。概略、次の内容を述べられていると想像します。

＞　韓国でのacademicな日本史研究において、
＞　日本は江戸時代に明らかにdokdoを韓国に譲りました。
＞　それは、例えば、次のＵＲＬで証明出来ます
＞　http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/wordpress/wp-content/images/trespass-map.jpg

韓国におけるacedemic（not=academic）な研究は、
原図を、自分の主張に都合の良い様に加工して、
読者の誤認を誘うことも含まれるのでしょうか。

dokdo-takeshima.com様は、
右図と白黒の左図を手に入れられた後、
左図に赤色のペイントを施しました。
この赤色ペイントの時、dokdo-takeshima.com様は謎の行為をされました。
それは、右図が赤色ペイントしている全ての場所から、
恣意的選択をして左図に赤色ペイントされました。
この為、対馬・下関・萩・江崎が白黒のまま残りました。

dokdo-takeshima.com様は、どうして、
読者に誤解を与えるような加工をするのでしょうか。
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김모씨5/2/10 23:38
Pretty, funny I love it!! A person in Japanese proof-reading my posts.

Do you want to check all of my English pages for typos? If you want to, please visit my website and correct all of my spelling. Cheap labour is hard to find these days.

Here are some others you can check. Be sure and find Dokdo on these Japanese maps while you're at it.

No-Dokdo-Any-Typos?

No-Dokdo-Any-Typos?

Let me know if there are any more spelling mistakes and I'll be glad to fix them!!
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take_85916/2/10 02:15
　私は、貴殿が敢えて、「academic」の語を使用しなかったのだと思いました。
　上で示した八右衛門の図に対する貴殿の恣意的加工は、「academic」な態度ではありません。

　すると、「独島が掲載されていない日本地図」として貴殿が示す多くの地図にも、
同様の恣意的加工が為されていると判断することが可能です。
もし、恣意的加工が為されているのであれば、「独島をこれらの日本地図で発見」する努力は、
無意味なものとなります。

　尚、日本の竹島領有権が不安定な間に、韓国が独島領有権を成立させていたことを示す明確な根拠が、
貴殿のＨＰ全体を通じて存在しません。
ですから、「独島をこれらの日本地図で発見」する努力は、無意味なものです。
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take_85917/2/10 08:27
竹島考証上の４頁に次のとおりです。

　竹島は●無人の荒島にして、７０余年間我人民の海利を壇せしも、元禄中往復の後其の鬱陵島たるを知り、之を彼に還したるを以って、今や彼の国の古史に就き、其の大略を掲げ、上世韓地の歴属たりし時の状を知らしむ。
　東国興地勝照覧巻首の八道総図中、江原道の海中に２島あり、西を于山と云い東を鬱陵と云う。●我所謂松島竹島の２島なるか。
　興地勝覧の説に拠れば、鬱陵島在江原道一名武陵　一名羽陵　在蔚珍県正東　三峯及業掌空　南峯梢卑　風日清則　峯頭樹木　及山根沙渚　歴々可見　風便則二日可到

　私の意訳は次のとおりです。

　元禄期に、日朝交渉があり、日本名「竹島」・超鮮名「鬱陵島」が１島２名であると確認し、之を朝鮮に還した。今、該島への版図外指令を受け、該島がダジュレー島であるか、それともアルゴノート島であるかの確認が急がれている。
　そこで、八道総図を見るに、于山が西に、鬱陵が東に描かれている。これは、于山島＝アルゴノート島（竹島）と捉え、鬱陵島＝ダジュレー島（松島）と捉えるべきなのであろうか。
　又、興地勝覧を見るに、「鬱陵島・・・風日清則峯頭樹木及山根沙渚歴々可見」と記載されている。半島とダジュレー島の距離を考えれば、半島で日常生活を送っている者がダジュレー島の「峯頭樹木」を見ることは出来ない。半島の高地に登れば「峯頭樹木」を見る事はできようが、「山根沙渚」を見ることはできないだろう。すると、「鬱陵島＝ダジュレー島」の説は否定せざるを得ない。
　更に、磯竹島略図を見ると、福浦竹島間は１２０里であり、竹島半島間は５０里と記載されている。これは、「竹島＝アルゴノート島」の説に合致するものと考えられる。
　しかるに、今般、アルゴノート島は実在しない島であるとの情報が流れている。

　現在、明治政府が求められているのは、速やかなるアルゴノート島の存否確認であり、元禄日朝交渉の対象とした島がダジュレー島であることの確認である。その後にダジュレー島に対する領有方針を決めねばならない。

　尚、田辺太一が、松島は鬱陵島であり、松島は于山島であり、この松島に何かを加えると蔚陵島になる等と意味不明の発言をしているが、無視すべきである。
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김모씨7/2/10 11:53
Kaneganese, I'm very flattered you went through the trouble of creating yet another phantom blog to brainwash Japanese people on my behalf.

But it's kind of sad that you won't debate in English anymore....

Truth-of-Dokdo

Oh well, whatever helps you sleep at night.
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Kaneganese7/2/10 15:08
take_8591様

こんにちは。

take_8591様は、この、yabutarouさんによる半月城氏の改竄の証拠を具体的に示して下さった方と同じ人物と考えてよろしいでしょうか?　（すぐ上の人はこのサイトだけでも幾つものIDを使い、よそのサイトを入れると数え切れないIDを使い、しかも論破される度にHPを書き直す（させる、などと約束しては守らず、全く違うIDで投稿する、卑劣な人ですので、基本的に放置するようブログ主から指示されています。それにしても、画像の恣意的改竄はこれに限らず、あのHPでは日常茶飯事で言葉で言ってものらりくらりと逃げ回って結局直さないので、take_8591さんのように一目で分かる画で反駁するのは中々よい方法ですね。参考になります。acEdemicは笑わせて頂きました。take_8591も意図的ではなかったようですし、間違いを茶化すのは趣味ではないのですが、相手は何しろ母国語で、こちらは外国語ですので、多少のユーモアは許されても良いかと思います。）

また、ご指摘の『朝鮮竹嶋渡航始末記』については、昨年春浜田を訪れて現物を確認すると同時に、森須和男氏に色々教えて頂きました。私には、この本の編者が朝鮮領として松島まで赤く塗ったのか、文中に出てくる島として赤く塗ったのか判断が付きませんが、この本は後世に誰か（浜田周辺の出身ではない）不明の別人の手によって様々な資料を集めて編まれたものであるが、誰であったかわからない、とのことでした。この件については、一度きちんと纏めようと思いつつ、昨年夏から公私共に多忙になり、今まで後回しになっており、関係者のかたがたに大変失礼なことになっています。皆様すみません。何れにせよ、八右衛門の証言は明確に記録が残っており、当時の浜田の関係者が松島（今日の竹島）は朝鮮領ではなく、この島へ渡っていたと言い訳すれば赦免されると考えていたことは明確ですので、それが幕末を通して広く伝わり、明治初期の「竹島」なら朝鮮領だが、「松島」であれば日本領だから開発可能、という認識に繋がったのではないかと考えています。この後世の別人による図がどういった意味を持つのか、解釈が異なることと思いますが、恣意的改竄は頂けませんね。ちなみに私がブログに載せた図は、川上健三氏のもので、確か新宿の神社にあるものだったように記憶しています。

「意訳」も、興味深く拝見させて頂きました。田辺の件についてちょっと考えをまとめてみたので、よろしければこちらをご覧になって下さい。

日本語で全く構いませんので、これからもご意見頂戴できれば幸いです。他の方がされているようにYahooとのダブル投稿や、連携投稿でも構いませんよ。また、私たちの書いた物で、間違いを発見された時は是非お知らせ下さい。特に初期の物は、あまり読み返したくないのですが、おそらく誤りが少なくないことと思いますので、適宜改竄．．．もとい、訂正して参りたいと思っています。

以上、今後ともどうぞよろしくお願い致します。
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Kaneganese7/2/10 15:15
correction

上のコメント中、take_8591としてしまったのをさん付けに読み替えてください。失礼しました。
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Kaneganese9/2/10 13:02
(I moved this comment from here. It was off topic.)

This is hilarious. According to this article by the chief of the editorial office of Korea's TV daily, Canadian Caucasian has some kind of original sin when it comes to racism. Poor girls.

원주민을 밀어내고 캐나다를 세운 백인종의 후예 도미니크의 역사적 시각이 의심스럽다.
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NE Shore of Ulleungdo (鬱陵島 - 울릉도)

This satellite photo shows Ulleungdo's neighboring islands of Gwaneumdo (觀音島) and Jukdo (竹島) off Ulleungdo's east shore. Gwaneumdo is only about 100 meters offshore and looks more like a cape than an island. Jukdo is about 2 km offshore. The old Korean name for Jukdo was "Usando" (于山島), as many of Korea's old maps show. Koreans claim that Usando was Korea's old name for "Dokdo" (Liancourt Rocks), but they have no documents or maps to prove it. Also, Liancourt Rocks is about ninety-two kilometers southeast of Ulleungdo and are essentially two islands, but all of Korea's old maps show it as one island just off shore of Ulleungdo.

"Cheonggudo" (靑邱圖) Atlas (1860 - 1872)

This Korean map of Ulleungdo (鬱陵島 - 울릉도) showed it with a small island off its eastern shore labeled as "Usan" (于山). Hash marks at the bottom of the map showed that Usan was less than 4 km off Ulleungdo's east shore. That would mean that it would be Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo, which is about 2.2 km off Ulleungdo's east shore. Koreans claim that Usando was the old name for Dokdo (Liancourt Rocks), but Dokdo is 92 km southeast of Ulleungdo and is essentially two islands, not one. The map is stored in the National Library of Korea.

"Cheonggudo" (靑邱圖) Atlas (1834)

This Korean map of Ulleungdo (鬱陵島 - 울릉도) showed Usan (于山 - 우산) as a neighboring island just off Ulleungdo's east shore. The hash marks at the bottom of the map showed the island to be about 4 km offshore. Usando was the old Korean name for Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo, which is about 2.2 km of Ulleungdo's east shore. Koreans claim that Usando was the old Korean name for "Dokdo" (Liancourt Rocks), which is 92 km southeast of Ulleungdo, but this map and many others prove that claim false. The map is stored in Seoul National University's Kyujanggak Center for Korean Studies.

"Dong Yeodo" (東輿圖) Atlas (1795 - 1800)

This map showed Ulleungdo (鬱陵島 - 울릉도) with a neighboring island labeled as "Usan" (于山 - 우산). Usando (于山島) was the old Korean name for Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo (竹島 - 죽도), which is about 2.2 km off Ulleungdo's east shore. Koreans claim that Usando was the old name for "Dokdo" (Liancourt Rocks), which is 92 km southeast of Ulleungdo, but this map and many others prove that claim wrong. The map is stored in Japan's "University of Tsukuba Library" (筑波大学附属図書館).

"Joseon-do" (朝鮮圖) - 1800 - 1822

This map of Ullelungdo (鬱陵島) is from the Korean atlas "Joseon-do" (朝鮮圖), which is believed to have been made sometime between 1800 and 1822. Ulleungdo is shown with a neighboring island labeled as Usan (于山). Koreans claim that Usando (于山島) was the old Korean name for Dokdo (Liancourt Rocks), but this map and many others show that it was Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo (竹島), which is Ulleungdo's largest neighboring island and only two kilometers off Ulleungdo's east shore. The map is stored in the Osaka Nakanoshima Library (中之島圖書館).

"Gwandong Bangyeo" (關東方輿) - late 1800s?)

This map of Ulleungdo comes from an atlas entitled "Gwandong Bangyeo" (關東方輿), which was probably made in the late 1800s since the map is very similarly to another map of Ulleungdo that was made between 1884 and 1894. The mapmaker used gridlines to help show relative size and distance. The map shows Ulleungdo with a small island off its east shore labeled as "Usan" (于山), which was the old Korean name for Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo (竹島 - 죽도). Jukdo is Ulleungdo's largest neighoring island and is about two kilometers off Ulleungdo's east shore. Koreans claim that Usando was the old Korean name for "Dokdo" (Liancourt Rocks), but they have no maps or documents to prove it. The map is stored in the Korean National Library.

"Joseon Jido" (朝鮮地圖) Atlas (1750 - 1768)

This Korean map of Ulleungdo (鬱陵島 - 울릉도) showed "Usan" (于山 - 우산) as a neighboring island. The grid lines on the map helped show the small island's relative distance from Ulleungdo. Usando (于山島 - 우산도) was the old Korean name for Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo (竹島 - 죽도), which is about 2.2 km off Ulleungdo's east shore. Korean's claim that Usando was the old name for "Dokdo" (Liancourt Rocks), but this map and many others prove that claim false.

Inspector's Map of Ulleungdo (1711)

The map is an inspector's map that showed Ulleungdo with an island off its east shore labeled as "the so-called Usando" (所謂于山島). The small island was also labeled as having "fields of haejang bamboo" (海長竹田). Koreans claim that Usando was Dokdo (Liancourt Rocks), but this map shows that it could not have been Dokdo since Dokdo is just rocks without the soil to grow haejang bamboo. Also, Usando was shown as a neighboring island of Ulleungdo, but Dokdo is 92 km southeast of Ulleungdo. Stored in Seoul Nat'l University's Kyujanggak Institute of Korean Studies.

"Haejwa Jeondo" (海左全圖) - mid 1800s

This old Korean map showed Ulleungdo (鬱陵島 - 울릉도) with a small neighboring island just off its east shore labeled as "Usan" (于山 - 우산). Koreans claim that Usando (于山島 - 우산도) was the old name for Dokdo (Liancourt Rocks), but this map is evidence against the Korean claim. Liancourt Rocks is essentially two islands 92 kilometers southeast of Ulleungdo, but the Usan on this map is just off Ulleungdo's east shore and is only one island. In fact, Usando was the old name for Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo (竹島 - 죽도), which is only two kilometers off Ulleungdo's east shore.

Carte de la Coree (1846)

This map was made iin 1846 by Kim Dae-geon (金大建), who was Korea's first Catholic priest. He made this map for the benefit of the French priest he works with. He was killed by the Joseon government the same year this map was made. The map shows Ulleungdo labeled in French as "Oulangto" and its neighboring island of Usando labeled as "Ousan." Koreans claim that Usando (于山島 - 우산도) was the old name for Dokdo (Liancourt Rock), but this map shows Usando as one island just of the east shore of Ulleungdo. That tells us that Usando was almost certainly Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo (竹島 - 죽도), which is only 2 kilometers off Ulleungdo's east shore. Also, this island could not have been Liancourt Rocks since Liancourt Rocks is essentially two islands not one. The original of this map is stored in the National Library of France.

Joseon Jeondo (朝鮮全圖) from the "Gakdo Jido" (各道地圖) Atlas (latter 18th c.)

This old Korean map showed an island labeled as "Usando" (于山島 - 우산도) just off the east shore of Ulleundo (鬱陵島 - 울릉도). Koreans claim that Usando was the old name for Dokdo (Liancourt Rocks), but this map is more evidence against that claim. Liancourt Rocks is essentially two islands ninety-two kilometers southeast of Ulleungdo, but this map shows Usando as one island just off Ulleungdo's east shore. Usando was, in fact, the old name for Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo (竹島 - 죽도), which is about two kilometers off Ulleungdo's east shore. This map is stored in Korea's Yeongnam University Museum.

"Joseon Jido" (朝鮮地圖) Atlas (1898)

"Donggyeong San Cheon - Paldo Jido (東京山川八道地圖) Atlas (date unknown)

"Jeongukdo" (全國圖) from the "Dongguk Daecheondo" (東國大全圖) - 1740

This old Korean map shows Ulleungdo (鬱陵島 - 울릉도) with a small neighboring island just off its east shore labeled as "Usando" (于山島 - 우산도). Koreans claim that Usando was the old name for Dokdo, but this map is evidence against that claim. Liancourt Rocks is essentially two islands ninety-two kilometers southeast of Ulleungdo, but the Usando on this map is one island just off the east shore of Ulleungdo. Usando was, in fact, the old name for Ulleungdo's neighboring island of Jukdo (竹島 - 죽도), which is about two kilometers off Ulleungdo's east shore. This map is stored in the Korean National Museum.

竹島問題の歴史

4.2.10

"Rie Akiba angers Korean netizens with Dokdo"

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