tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post1621868267283383544..comments2024-01-26T17:48:29.804+09:00Comments on Dokdo-or-Takeshima?: 1600's? - The Map of Joseon(朝鮮国図)Gerry Bevershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14311939520870098017noreply@blogger.comBlogger640125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-54811389947382467962012-07-25T23:14:08.236+09:002012-07-25T23:14:08.236+09:00Not for nothing, but do these ancient maps, false ...Not for nothing, but do these ancient maps, false or otherwise, even matter? If one were to read the Rusk documents it is clearly evident that the Liancort Rocks were never considered part of Korean territory and were not included in the Peace Treaty of San Francisco.<br /><br />After a quick search I found these interesting websites:<br /><br />http://www16.tok2.com/home/otakeshimaoxdokdox/International%20Law/RuskDocumentsTreatyofPeacewzJapan.htm<br /><br />http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Possible_Methods_of_Resolving_Liancourt_Rocks_Dispute_between_Japan_and_ROKBaboJeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16166351918977990868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-20640270431697240502008-07-30T22:54:00.000+09:002008-07-30T22:54:00.000+09:00I don`t understand why everybody is so obsessed wi...I don`t understand why everybody is so obsessed with maps. Come on guys, 500 AD and two really small rocks?<BR/>You must be kidding.helpfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863144851806876124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-19312306379187080752008-07-30T22:01:00.000+09:002008-07-30T22:01:00.000+09:00The map shows that Daemado (Tsushima) belonged to ...The map shows that Daemado (Tsushima) belonged to Korea.<BR/><BR/>Nice side effect !helpfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863144851806876124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-75126928205050509662008-07-26T12:41:00.000+09:002008-07-26T12:41:00.000+09:00juuno,That's not my theory. That theory belongs to...juuno,<BR/><BR/>That's not my theory. <BR/><BR/>That theory belongs to your teacher, Prof. Sang-Myon Rhee of the SNU College of Law:<BR/><BR/>http://pipl.com/directory/people/Sang-Myon/Rhee<BR/><BR/>Anyway, although his interpretaion as a whole is totally wrong, he has "carelessly" put a little undeniable light on one thing which is very crucial:<BR/><BR/>"石島" can be interpreted as "a 石島" meaning just a rock island.<BR/><BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>even as the 'raquel's theory,<BR/><BR/>that means a 石島(stone island) called 竹島(takeshima),<BR/><BR/>that is the "dok-do".<BR/><BR/>and also because 鬱陵全島 means whole islands group of 鬱陵島.<BR/>juk-do is just one of the group.Raquelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777067933400361301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-90140164387574976432008-07-26T07:58:00.000+09:002008-07-26T07:58:00.000+09:00junno,As for the map, as I wrote somewhere before,...junno,<BR/><BR/>As for the map, as I wrote somewhere before, the 竹島 (Takeshima) in he map is Argonaut island which is a phantom island and the 松島 (Matsushima) in the map is Dagelet island (Ulleungdo). <BR/><BR/>It is easily understsandable when you can read the longitudes.<BR/><BR/>As to the longitudes, please read the article here:<BR/>http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/06/1899-american-map-of-japan-and-1894.html<BR/><BR/>Also about the 竹島 as Argonaut island and the 松島 as dagelet island, please read here:<BR/>http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/07/1894-japanese-map.html<BR/><BR/>As to the two islands (Argonaut and Dagelet islands), please read here:<BR/>http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/07/1817-aaron-arrowsmiths-map-of-japan-and.html<BR/><BR/>Many American maps from the 19th century also showed Argonaut island as Taka Shima (=Takeshima,竹島) and Dagelet island as Matsu Shima (=Matsushima,松島). An example is here:<BR/>http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/07/1891-american-map-of-japan.html<BR/><BR/>Another example is here:<BR/>http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/06/1897-american-map-of-japan-and-korea.htmlpacifisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14100903035796287895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-39013962635239041932008-07-26T00:03:00.000+09:002008-07-26T00:03:00.000+09:00http://blog.daum.net/gijuzzang/5545603?srchid=BR1h...http://blog.daum.net/gijuzzang/5545603?srchid=BR1http%3A%2F%2Fblog.daum.net%2Fgijuzzang%2F5545603<BR/><BR/>you should also see this site.<BR/>this is about the name of "dok-do"<BR/><BR/>anyway, I am busy.<BR/><BR/>if someone wants, i will translate later.<BR/><BR/>see you.juunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07128276210794478041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-46627062525451447142008-07-25T23:23:00.000+09:002008-07-25T23:23:00.000+09:00And still I am wondering abot the "竹島" and "松島" be...And still I am wondering abot the "竹島" and "松島" before 1905.<BR/><BR/>as I asked all of you!! ,in the previous comment.<BR/><BR/>And also in the previous map.<BR/><BR/>http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/color-code-dokdo.jpgjuunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862786429666309620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-10954018914666672392008-07-25T23:21:00.000+09:002008-07-25T23:21:00.000+09:00And as your theory in here,Juk-do is the "jasando"...And as your theory in here,<BR/><BR/>Juk-do is the "jasando" as like in this blog.<BR/><BR/>THEN DID YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT THE "JUK-DO".<BR/><BR/>IS THIS "JUK-DO" ,THE "竹島" OR "JASANDO" ?juunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862786429666309620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-91254464044679151322008-07-25T23:18:00.000+09:002008-07-25T23:18:00.000+09:00Actually that is not my theory,But the "RAQUEL'S ...Actually that is not my theory,<BR/><BR/>But the "RAQUEL'S THEORY"<BR/><BR/>OK?juunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862786429666309620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-35234977017238384642008-07-25T22:04:00.000+09:002008-07-25T22:04:00.000+09:00junno,If you insist "Stone island called Takeshima...junno,<BR/><BR/>If you insist "Stone island called Takeshima (竹島)" theory, it is definitely Ulleungdo's neighbouring island Jukdo (竹島), not Liancourt Rocks, because the name of "Takeshima" was named in 1905 for the first time so that Liancourt Rocks were not Takeshima in 1900 when the Imperial Edict was made.<BR/><BR/>Jukdo is a kind of rock island with a unique shape. So if you interpret that 竹島石島 should be a "stone island called 竹島", your theory is indicating that it was not Liancourt Rocks.pacifisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14100903035796287895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-77308108269748740562008-07-25T21:33:00.000+09:002008-07-25T21:33:00.000+09:00And,the Korean Imperial Edict No. 41 (대한제국 칙령 제41호...And,<BR/><BR/>the Korean Imperial Edict No. 41 (대한제국 칙령 제41호),1900<BR/><BR/>"郡廳位置는台霞洞으로定하고區域은鬱陵全島와竹島石島를管轄할事" <BR/><BR/>here, 竹島石島.<BR/><BR/>even as the 'raquel's theory,<BR/><BR/>that means a 石島(stone island) called 竹島(takeshima),<BR/><BR/>that is the "dok-do".<BR/><BR/>and also because 鬱陵全島 means whole islands group of 鬱陵島.<BR/>juk-do is just one of the group.<BR/><BR/>as kaneganese and wiki dictionary said.<BR/><BR/>but, Japan insist this 竹島石島 is their island, in 1905, illegaly.<BR/><BR/>And also took our right of diplomacy by the "threathening" our king.<BR/><BR/>And 1945 the "JAPAN" EMPIRE" was destroyed.<BR/><BR/>Then we recovered our island.<BR/><BR/>do you understand?<BR/><BR/>or do you want to repeat more?<BR/><BR/>:)juunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862786429666309620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-1330210090414041682008-07-25T18:55:00.000+09:002008-07-25T18:55:00.000+09:00kaneganese,in your blog, I can't write.how about f...kaneganese,<BR/><BR/>in your blog, I can't write.<BR/><BR/>how about fixing that?<BR/><BR/>;)juunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862786429666309620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-32656765348521789202008-07-25T17:05:00.000+09:002008-07-25T17:05:00.000+09:00I have allowed the above two comments from Juuno o...I have allowed the above two comments from Juuno on this non-topic issue to let people know that they have been "warned," but I will not allow the name-calling debate to get started, again. Also, I have allowed one comment from Raquel to help balance Juuno's comments with her grievance, but I will not allow any more, unless it is about Dokdo/Takeshima.<BR/><BR/>If Pacifist and Kanegenese respond, I hope they respond with a historical argument rather than renewing the old argument with Juuno.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I think Juuno has a lot of gall to threaten legal action after having written some very nasty, childish comments on this blog.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I will not respond to anymore to his threats or allow anymore of them to be posted. I will allow him only to comment on the subject of the Dokdo/Takeshima dispute.Gerry Bevershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14311939520870098017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-78872736279120271952008-07-25T16:53:00.000+09:002008-07-25T16:53:00.000+09:00juuno,"BE CAREFUL.I wish you not to be harmed."Hol...juuno,<BR/><BR/>"BE CAREFUL.<BR/>I wish you not to be harmed."<BR/><BR/>Holy Molly...Now are you threatening me and Gerry? Are you out of your mind? This is serious offence if it happened in Japan. I've already warned you that it's going to destroy your future when you thereatened to find raquel and kill him/her. In case, you don't realize, I'm not in Korea and I'm totally free from Koran law unless I had done anything illegal in Korea.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, this is not an appropriate topic we should discuss on this blog, so please visit my temporary testing blog here.<BR/>http://thetruthoftakeshimadokdo.blogspot.com/<BR/><BR/>Actually, I hadn't sent them yet simply because I've been busy with my summer sale shopping. We can talk about the situation you are facing over there.Kaneganesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533339719864245857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-51598282265825243952008-07-25T16:44:00.000+09:002008-07-25T16:44:00.000+09:00juuno,Could you tell us what the maximun penalty e...juuno,<BR/><BR/>Could you tell us what the maximun penalty expected for making a threat of physical harm is under the Korean criminal law?<BR/><BR/>Thank you.<BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>In Korean Law, we can punish any foreigners who are located in Korea.<BR/><BR/>I know the laws in Korea and I also know many people in the courts.Raquelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777067933400361301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-3100227005810552532008-07-25T16:43:00.000+09:002008-07-25T16:43:00.000+09:00junno,If you are really a studen of a law school, ...junno,<BR/><BR/>If you are really a studen of a law school, you may know about extortion or blackmail. Your last few postings seems to be blackmails.<BR/><BR/>And it was Korea who robbed Liancourt Rocks, not Japan. As we've shown in this blog, there is no evidence that Korea owned the island before 1905. It was a kind of invasion of Japanese territory by Korea. You should learn about the SF Peace Treaty in the law school.<BR/><BR/>Please read the following<BR/>and understand the international law.<BR/><BR/> http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2007/12/report-of-van-fleet-mission-to-far-east.html<BR/><BR/>I hope you will understand the whole situation. Thank you.pacifisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14100903035796287895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-45194624106285334232008-07-25T13:57:00.000+09:002008-07-25T13:57:00.000+09:00And if she or he had already sent any letters to m...And if she or he had already sent any letters to my law school in DC,<BR/><BR/>HE or SHE must pack her bags to go back to Japan.<BR/><BR/>or TO GO TO JAIL.(of course Korean jail)<BR/><BR/>I PROMISE YOU. I GRADUATED FROM LAWS SCHOOL IN SNU, as you might see my gr certifiticate in my bolg.<BR/><BR/>I know the laws in korea and I also know many people in the court.<BR/><BR/>Now I will go to USA to study international law for this kind of thing like the territorial thing.<BR/><BR/>And I think you, Gerry should also be careful, cause MANY KOREAN PEOPLE NOW LOOK THIS BLOG BECAUSE OF THAT STUPID "VOTE".<BR/><BR/>YOU've been HELPING THOSE JAPANESE SPY.<BR/><BR/>THEY ARE SPY TO KOREA, CAUSE THEY COLLECT OUR DOCUMENTS FOR THE BENEFIT OF JAPAN.<BR/><BR/>DO YOU REALLY THINK THIS BLOG IS FOR TEACHING KOREAN? HA<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>BE CAREFUL.<BR/>I wish you not to be harmed.juunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862786429666309620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-24602230262866079352008-07-25T12:13:00.000+09:002008-07-25T12:13:00.000+09:00to Gerry,I want you to kanedanese about the law.An...to Gerry,<BR/><BR/>I want you to kanedanese about the law.<BR/><BR/>And I will wait for your answer by today midnight.<BR/><BR/>And if kaneganese don't say "sorry to me",<BR/><BR/>then I will do an action, a legal one.<BR/><BR/>Don't test my patience.<BR/><BR/>And I wish to know the meaning of "I will take it as yes."written by kaneganese about my comment.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I really think that you and they are ignorant on Korean Law, specially the Criminal LAW.<BR/><BR/>And I think they,japanese tent to neglect Korean and the Korean law.<BR/><BR/>kaneganese said" if i am an adult, that's another story."<BR/><BR/>Yse, that's right.<BR/><BR/>now I am ready for my doing.<BR/><BR/>And this is their turn and also yours.<BR/><BR/>is their have any exoneration as a diplomatic official?<BR/><BR/>are they in diplomatic position?<BR/><BR/>And are you?<BR/><BR/>Now I am warning you and them seriously about the result of this blog.<BR/><BR/>I will wait by this mid-night.<BR/><BR/>Don't you know why I showed up my identity?<BR/><BR/>In Korea, here is a proverb.<BR/><BR/>" The young kid dog don't know how strong and terrible the tiger is."<BR/><BR/>You should also know.<BR/><BR/>Korean people is knid and generous, but if they are really angry, you can see what is the result.<BR/><BR/>I SAY NOW AGAIN.<BR/><BR/>"I WILL WAIT YOU AND THEIR ANSWER BY TODAY'S MIDNIGHT, 12PM."<BR/><BR/>THEN I WILL DO SOMETHING LEAGAL.<BR/><BR/>THANK YOU.<BR/><BR/>(And this is not only for myself, but also for the benefit of Republic of Korea, according to the law.)<BR/>bye.juunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862786429666309620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-87856484391543409542008-07-25T09:32:00.000+09:002008-07-25T09:32:00.000+09:00Gerry,you should know Korean LAW.specially the cri...Gerry,<BR/><BR/>you should know Korean LAW.<BR/><BR/>specially the criminal law.<BR/><BR/>we are generous to foreigners.<BR/><BR/>But according to situation, it can be changed.<BR/><BR/>now your blog is very famous because of the vote.<BR/><BR/>Also in japan, there are lots of advertisement and anouncement about this blog. we also know this.<BR/><BR/>In Korean Law, we can punish any foriegners who is located in Korea.<BR/><BR/>Look this site.<BR/><BR/> http://www.lawnb.com/lawinfo/law/info_law_searchview.asp?ljo=l&lawid=00332900<BR/><BR/>And look more carefully,<BR/><BR/>the 2條 and <BR/><BR/>from 92條 to 104條.<BR/><BR/>If we had a battle with Japan, we couldn't know about the result of that.<BR/><BR/>Look more detaily 92條.<BR/><BR/>I will translate for you and the other Japanese.<BR/><BR/>92條 (외환유치) 외국과 통모하여 대한민국에 대하여 전단을 열게 하거나 외국인과 통모하여 대한민국에 항적한 자는 사형 또는 무기징역에 처한다. <BR/><BR/>92. Anyone who makes foreign country to start a war or battle on Korea By the communiction with foreign country,<BR/> Anyone who resistes Korea<BR/><BR/> Can be condemn to death penalty or penal servitude for life. <BR/><BR/>and 2條,(국내범) 본법은 대한민국영역내에서 죄를 범한 내국인과 외국인에게 적용한다. shortly means that this law is applied to anyone in Korea.(including foreigners and of course Korean who violate our law in Korea)<BR/><BR/>5條.외국인의 국외범) 본법은 대한민국영역외에서 다음에 기재한 죄를 범한 외국인에게 적용한다.<BR/>1. 내란의 죄<BR/>2. 외환의 죄<BR/>3. 국기에 관한 죄<BR/>4. 통화에 관한 죄<BR/>5. 유가증권, 우표와 인지에 관한 죄<BR/>6. 문서에 관한 죄중 제225조 내지 제230조 <BR/>7. 인장에 관한 죄중 제238조 <BR/><BR/><BR/> for some criminal like 92~104條, foreigner who violate these 6 part of law in foreign country, can also be punished.<BR/><BR/>you should also know our Law ,not only the geography and history.<BR/><BR/>Actually I didn't do anything to you and them.<BR/><BR/>however if there are some Korean who are very angry with this blog, it could be a big problem.<BR/><BR/>racism is a samll thing, but your actions here could be understood as a spy's job.<BR/><BR/>specially if you and they collect some documents or information in Korea, it would be more possible.<BR/><BR/>And kaneganese and pacifist are Japanese.<BR/>they can have more serious situation.<BR/><BR/>you should know this and you sould also warn to them.<BR/><BR/>Someone like me, just say "JAP" and do nothing.<BR/><BR/>but, the others who are silent, can do anything.<BR/><BR/>you must know this!!!!!juunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862786429666309620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-24213184204683106552008-07-24T18:55:00.000+09:002008-07-24T18:55:00.000+09:00Then what do you think of the 松島 and 竹島 before 190...Then what do you think of the 松島 and 竹島 before 1905?<BR/><BR/><BR/> //元祿九丙子年朝鮮舟着岸一卷之覺書//<BR/><BR/><BR/>安龍福申候ハ竹嶋ヲ竹ノ嶋とと申朝鮮国江原道 東萊府ノ内鬱陵嶋と申嶋御座候是ヲ竹ノ嶋と申由申候 則 八道ノ圖記之所持仕候松嶋ハ右同道之内子山と申嶋御座候是ヲ松嶋と申由是も八道之圖記申候<BR/><BR/>(생략)<BR/><BR/>一、安龍福申候ハ 私乘参候船ハ拾壱人伯州参取鳥伯耆守樣御断之義在之罷越申候 順総布※候而当地へ奇申候 順次第泊州渡海可仕候 五月十五日竹嶋出船 同日松嶋着 同十六日松嶋ヲ出 十八日之朝隱岐嶋之內 西村之磯ヘ着 同二十日大久村入津仕候由申候 西村之磯ハ荒磯而御座候付 同日中村入津是□之惡候故 翌十九日彼所出候而同日晩 大久村之內かよひ浦と申所舟懸リ仕二日大久村参懸リ居申候<BR/>一、 竹嶋と朝鮮之間三十里竹嶋と松嶋之間五十里在之由申候<BR/>一、 安龍福ととらべ 武人四年已前酉夏竹嶋而伯州之舟被連まいリ候とらべも此度召連参り竹嶋juunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862786429666309620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-72839091263819890872008-07-24T18:44:00.000+09:002008-07-24T18:44:00.000+09:00Dear pacifist,6:00 PM한문으로 쓰여진 원문이 상세하게 기술되어 있지 않아서...Dear pacifist,<BR/><BR/>6:00 PM<BR/><BR/>한문으로 쓰여진 원문이 상세하게 기술되어 있지 않아서 혼란을 줄 수 있다는 것을 인정합니다.<BR/><BR/>토론을 위한 자리이기 때문에, 더 많은 글들과 같이 분석해 보아야 정확한 의미를 서로 인정할 수 있을 것 같습니다.<BR/><BR/>한반도에서 두 섬을 보았을 경우의 문제에 대해서는, 더 많은 글들을 찾아보고 생각해보도록 하겠습니다.<BR/><BR/>의견 주신 것에 대하여 감사드립니다.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-32551926545655616862008-07-24T18:27:00.000+09:002008-07-24T18:27:00.000+09:00junno,Kaneganese wrote the text about Sambongdo he...junno,<BR/><BR/>Kaneganese wrote the text about Sambongdo here:<BR/>http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/04/1470-sambongdo-was-another-name-of.html<BR/><BR/>All the episodes, which you showed in two separate references in Chinese letter, were included in the above article.pacifisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14100903035796287895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-24238122952343577902008-07-24T18:16:00.000+09:002008-07-24T18:16:00.000+09:00Juuno,Yes, King Sejong tried to find Sambongdo (三峯...Juuno,<BR/><BR/>Yes, King Sejong tried to find Sambongdo (三峯島), but he never found it because Sambongdo was just another name for Ulleungdo, which was well-known for its three most prominent peaks. <BR/><BR/>In Korea's <I>Chungwanji</I> (春官志 - 춘관지), Ulleungdo was called Sambongdo (三峯島). See <A HREF="http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/02/chungwanji-ulleungdo-is-called.html" REL="nofollow">HERE</A>.Gerry Bevershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14311939520870098017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-9637711731558730672008-07-24T18:00:00.000+09:002008-07-24T18:00:00.000+09:00Dear lord,Thanks for your opinion.You wrote that t...Dear lord,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your opinion.<BR/><BR/>You wrote that the distance of 2.2km is strange to say "can easily view on fine days", that's true.<BR/><BR/>Then please think about my posting that the text may mean "the two islands can be easily viewed from the Korean peninsula on fine days". <BR/><BR/>It is far more reasonable than the "Dokdo" theory because Korean people in those day usually wrote the distance of islands based on Korean peninsula. <BR/>So if the author was writing the document at Korean peninsula, he should have meant about the distance of them (two islands) from the place where he was.pacifisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14100903035796287895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-10202947302476707562008-07-24T17:44:00.000+09:002008-07-24T17:44:00.000+09:00the 7,8 里= 3km.They could misunderstand the 30 "fu...the 7,8 里= 3km.<BR/><BR/>They could misunderstand the 30 "fur seal"s as 人形.<BR/><BR/>-------------------------<BR/>thanks, again..juunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862786429666309620noreply@blogger.com