tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post6192926060161491087..comments2024-01-26T17:48:29.804+09:00Comments on Dokdo-or-Takeshima?: Q1: Has Dokdo been a part of Korea since the sixth century?Gerry Bevershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14311939520870098017noreply@blogger.comBlogger103125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-55925838353502740102010-03-02T22:59:36.107+09:002010-03-02T22:59:36.107+09:00Kaneganese, oh wise unbiased scholar.
Please enli...Kaneganese, oh wise unbiased scholar.<br /><br />Please enlighten us about when Japan admitted Takeshima (Ulleungdo) and Matsushima (Dokdo) were Korean territory in 1837. It seems you are lacking data on this historical record.<br /><br /><b>http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/the-takeshima-incident-of-1837.html</b><br /><br />Please explain, I need a good laugh.김모씨https://www.blogger.com/profile/05052162596562064525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-26681018805784085572010-03-02T14:26:17.624+09:002010-03-02T14:26:17.624+09:00Hi, kimx
"that translated the Korean newspap...Hi, kimx<br /><br />"that translated the Korean newspaper article wrong to make fun of Koreans. So the blog is making claims based on wrongly translated documents, and clearly, it is not neutral information."<br /><br />Whic article you are talking about? Could you please provide us correct translation instead? I do not prefer to read wrong translation.<br /><br />What I understand about this issue is this.<br /><br />1. Japanese fishermem were hunting sealions on Takeshima from at least mid 17th century by the permission of Shogunate. Even Korean doesn't challenge this fact.<br /><br />Below is the oldest Takeshima/Dokdo map made by The Murakawas from Yonago approximately in mid 17 century. This is only one of the hundreds of documents which shows Japanese visited today's Takeshima since 1600s.<br /><br /><a href="http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/07/mid-17th-century-illustrative-maps-of.html" rel="nofollow"><br />Mid 17th century - Illustrative Map of Matsushima (松嶋絵図) by Murakawa Clan</a><br /><br />2. In 1905, Japan's Meiji government formally decided to incorporate Takeshima into Shimane prefecture. <br /><br /><a href="http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2007/11/28th-of-january-1905-dicision-by.html" rel="nofollow">1905 - January 28th: the decision to incorporate Takeshima in to Shimane by a Cabinet meeting (公文類集第29編 竹島編入閣議決定) </a><br /><br />Korean Imperial government officially acquiesced the Japan's sovereignty over Takeshima/Dokdo by not expressing protest against Japan's formal incorporation into Shimane. <br /><br /><a href="http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/11/korean-imperial-government-officially.html" rel="nofollow"><br />1906 - Feb 20 & April 17 - "Official Documents of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Vol.1" - Korean government protested about land transaction in 竹邊浦</a><br /><br />3. What Korean today claim is that they "recognized" Dokdo from 512, meaning prior to Japan, though none of their old documents supports their claim. They claim Dokdo's old name was 三峯島, 于山島, but...<br /><br /><a href="http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/04/1470-sambongdo-was-another-name-of.html" rel="nofollow">1470 - "Sambongdo(三峯島)" was just an another name of Ulleundo, not Takeshima/Dokdo</a><br /><br />"Usan/Usando" was Ulleungdo's old name til the end of 17th century.<br /><a href="http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/07/q1-has-dokdo-been-part-of-korea-since.html" rel="nofollow">Q1: Has Dokdo been a part of Korea since the sixth century?</a> <br /><br />Usando was then recognized as Ulleungdo's neighbouring island, Jukdo since inspector Jan's report in 1694. <br /><br /><a href="http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2007/12/1711-bak-seok-changs-map-of-ulleungdo.html" rel="nofollow">1711 - Bak Chang-seok's (朴昌錫) Map of Ulleungdo (鬱陵島圖形)</a><br /><br />The problem of Korea's "information " is, not only they are biased, but they are proving Korea's claim is false.<br /><br />I honestly hope Korean academics provide us non-biased historical documents and maps. They should open its official documents around 1905-1906 more to public and available on the net.Kaneganesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533339719864245857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-61718704124072340452010-03-02T11:15:32.457+09:002010-03-02T11:15:32.457+09:00I wasn't sure where to leave a general respons...I wasn't sure where to leave a general response to the blog, so I decided to just write a comment here. <br /><br />I have no doubt that the person who wrote this blog did a lot of research. I am very impressed and I have learned a lot from this blog.<br /><br />However, I do feel that the blog is biased. Although the maker of the blog states that the purpose of the blog is to inform people rather than take a side, I strongly felt that all the information presented here was one-sided.<br /><br />The blog presented documents and maps from Korea long time ago that would support the island did not belong to Korea. However, I did not find any maps from Japan long time ago that shows the island belonged to Japan. So it seems to me that the blog imposes an impression that Korea is claiming false statements. However, the blog does not say anything about how Japan's claims are more convincing by themselves, without disproving what Koreans say wrong. So this blog does not appear to have the proper qualifications to be unbiased.<br /><br />I did not look through all the articles, but I did find one that translated the Korean newspaper article wrong to make fun of Koreans. So the blog is making claims based on wrongly translated documents, and clearly, it is not neutral information.<br /><br />As a scientist, I dislike any kind of biases. That was why I rejoiced when I found this blog and read the statement that says this blog was not for taking a side (since all the other websites dealing with this issue were all biased). But I was very disappointed to find biases everywhere in most of the articles in this blog. I strongly believe Japan and Korea both present biased information about this issue, and that is why this is very hard to solve.Tiyahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04300640701048465806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-45693758156987890042009-07-02T23:51:09.267+09:002009-07-02T23:51:09.267+09:00keebong,
We are not only trying to prove whether ...keebong,<br /><br />We are not only trying to prove whether Dokdo belongs to Korea or Japan through ancient maps, but trying to prove whether Takeshima (Dokdo) belongs to Japan or Korea by various ways including old documents of both countries.<br /><br />And, as you may noticed, there was no evidence for Korea to prove that Dokdo belonged to Korea at all. <br /><br />Usando was not Dokdo. Sambongdo was not Dokdo. The first Koreans on Dokdo were fishermen who were hired by Japanese in the early 20th century.<br /><br />Takeshima had been controlled by Japan until 1945 when Japan was occupied by the Allied Powers. It was robbed by Rhee Syngman in 1952 just before San Francisco Peace Treaty was concluded and since then they began educating their people with the propaganda "Dokdo is ours".pacifisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14100903035796287895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-868984578480517252009-07-02T21:00:07.213+09:002009-07-02T21:00:07.213+09:00This blog is for discussing Takeshima lianocurt ro...This blog is for discussing Takeshima lianocurt rocks.<br /><br />But if you have interesting in detail description on korean antique maps about Tushima island and antique maps, see here;<br /><br />http://www.kjclub.com/jp/exchange/theme/read.php?uid=3819&fid=3819&thread=1000000&idx=1&page=1&tname=exc_board_11&number=1&f=a.name&word=BoussoleGTOMRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06881539471132140299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-43982613274858735442009-07-02T19:43:26.240+09:002009-07-02T19:43:26.240+09:00Sorry, there are some mistakes.
Well,if we try t...Sorry, there are some mistakes. <br /><br />Well,if we try to prove whether Dokdo belongs to Korea or Japan through ancient maps, then Korean can claim that Tsushima Island belong to Korea. The reason is simple. Some of old Korean map include Tsushima Island as its territory.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16368833478328322706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-33756642598306028612009-07-02T19:39:02.339+09:002009-07-02T19:39:02.339+09:00Well,if we try to prove whether Dokdo belongs to K...Well,if we try to prove whether Dokdo belongs to Korea or Takeshima through ancient maps, then Korean can claim that Tsushima Island belong to Korea. The reason is simple. Some of old Korean map include Takeshima island as its territory.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16368833478328322706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-21332133193742923292008-08-06T18:11:00.000+09:002008-08-06T18:11:00.000+09:00Rachel,yeah I was talking about Takano Niigasa fro...Rachel,<BR/><BR/>yeah I was talking about Takano Niigasa from Baekje, also Baekje brought technology, education, politics to Japan, founded highly respected cultures, brought buddhism and architecture to Japan.<BR/>There are cities and rivers named after Kudara.<BR/><BR/>It is undisputed.helpfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863144851806876124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-87586312420484309512008-08-06T18:01:00.001+09:002008-08-06T18:01:00.001+09:00Dokdo-Takeshima (Steve Barber),Travel to Liancourt...Dokdo-Takeshima (Steve Barber),<BR/><BR/>Travel to Liancourt Rocks was not banned until the 1836 incident, which proves that only Ulleungdo was recognized as Korean territory in the 1690s.Gerry Bevershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14311939520870098017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-40072213459289072022008-08-06T18:01:00.000+09:002008-08-06T18:01:00.000+09:00helpfish,You have to learn the true hisotry of Bae...helpfish,<BR/><BR/>You have to learn the true hisotry of Baekje first.<BR/><BR/>For example, some 1200 years ago, there was a lady called Takanono Niigasa(高野新笠) who is said to have been a direct descendant of King Munyeong(武寧) of Baekje and who became a mistress of Emperor Konin and was the mother of the 50th emperor, Emperor Kanmu.Raquelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777067933400361301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-44500528275607176902008-08-06T17:57:00.000+09:002008-08-06T17:57:00.000+09:00Steve,You must study Japan's history in the Edo er...Steve,<BR/><BR/>You must study Japan's history in the Edo era. <BR/><BR/>In those days people must have some passes to move from a county to another county even within Japan. These counties or clans are kinds of small countries with barriers or check points. <BR/><BR/>And if you go into the land of Shogunate's direct control (直轄地),<BR/>you must have a permission from the Shogunate. The permission given to Murakawas and Oyas was this kind of permission. <BR/>http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2007/06/blog-post_02.html<BR/><BR/>They were also given a big flag of mallow-shaped crest (Tokugawa's crest), which means they were working under the Tokugawa's (the Shogunate's) control. They showed this flag on ships when they went to Takeshima and Matsushima.<BR/>If you want to see this flag, you can see it at a museum in Yonago.pacifisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14100903035796287895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-82981545463015120942008-08-06T17:52:00.000+09:002008-08-06T17:52:00.000+09:00Rachel, i am actually from Baekje, the founder of ...Rachel, i am actually from Baekje, the founder of Yamato, Nara, Asuka etc. cultures and the founder of modern day Japan. Yes I know it and the japanese bow down in front of my Kudara race. BTW. The japanese emperor is a descendant of my kudara race.helpfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863144851806876124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-73500738492253791062008-08-06T17:40:00.000+09:002008-08-06T17:40:00.000+09:00Pacifist, you're lost again.My point was the fact ...Pacifist, you're lost again.<BR/><BR/>My point was the fact those who voyaged to Ulleungdo and Dokdo needed voyages passes shows the islands weren't part of Japan. You don't need a voyage pass to go to your own country this fact alone kills Japan 17th century claims to these islands.<BR/><BR/>Japan's Shogunate considered Ulleungdo and Dokdo as part of Chosun after the Anyongobk incident.<BR/><BR/>Raquel, Anyonbok did not see any of the Okinoshima's en route to Mishima on Oki's main island. You are being wacky again!!<BR/><BR/>Here is Anyongbok's route. Study it, learn it, live it.<BR/><A HREF="http://www.dokdo-takeshima.com/ayb-vismp2.gif" REL="nofollow">AnyongbokRoute</A>dokdo-takeshima.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04262234000937445458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-81529621092448969492008-08-06T17:38:00.000+09:002008-08-06T17:38:00.000+09:00Hogong(瓠公) is a legendary figure who is said to ha...Hogong(瓠公) is a legendary figure who is said to have been originally from Japan and who was the highest ranking minister of Silla in its founding period some 2000 years ago:<BR/><BR/>http://100.naver.com/100.nhn?docid=189881<BR/><BR/>So, take it easy, helpfish, a son of Hogong.Raquelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777067933400361301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-14488275394457527502008-08-06T17:23:00.000+09:002008-08-06T17:23:00.000+09:00Hogong lived from around 50BC to 50AD. That makes ...Hogong lived from around 50BC to 50AD. That makes him completely irrelevant for the Dokdo issue.<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogonghelpfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863144851806876124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-3861762597419025192008-08-06T17:19:00.000+09:002008-08-06T17:19:00.000+09:00helpfish,Just tell me who Hogong was._____________...helpfish,<BR/><BR/>Just tell me who Hogong was.<BR/><BR/>___________________________________<BR/><BR/>Hogong has nothing to do with Dokdo either.Raquelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777067933400361301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-2436912018773952952008-08-06T17:13:00.000+09:002008-08-06T17:13:00.000+09:00and the size of the islands labelled Liancourt / H...and the size of the islands labelled Liancourt / Hornets isn`t exactly 1:324, and the missing term "rocks" means that they are actually not referring to Dok-Do because Dok-Do consists of rocks.<BR/><BR/>...sorry for the sarcasm !helpfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863144851806876124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-25254159036451773652008-08-06T17:12:00.000+09:002008-08-06T17:12:00.000+09:00BTW, there is no Jukdo visible on this map.Then th...BTW, there is no Jukdo visible on <A HREF="http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/08/1902-german-map-of-japan-und-korea.html" REL="nofollow">this</A> map.<BR/><BR/>Then the islets called Liancourt/ Hornets must be referring to Juk-Do as the position isn`t exactly 37°14.helpfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863144851806876124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-66845950448929009922008-08-06T17:07:00.000+09:002008-08-06T17:07:00.000+09:00Hogong has nothing to do with Dokdo either.Hogong has nothing to do with Dokdo either.helpfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863144851806876124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-58463975532501687812008-08-06T17:00:00.000+09:002008-08-06T17:00:00.000+09:00helpfish,Do you know who Hogong was?helpfish,<BR/><BR/>Do you know who Hogong was?Raquelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777067933400361301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-50177421218902635582008-08-06T16:33:00.000+09:002008-08-06T16:33:00.000+09:00Rachel won`t be satisfied until she gets SUCH a ma...Rachel won`t be satisfied until she gets <A HREF="http://dokdo-or-takeshima.blogspot.com/2008/08/1902-german-map-of-japan-und-korea.html" REL="nofollow">SUCH</A> a map from Korea including Dokdo, dated back to 500 AD. Oh and it has to include all ever given names and all names given to it in the future in exact McCune-Reischauer system.helpfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863144851806876124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-57476124781672476892008-08-06T16:25:00.000+09:002008-08-06T16:25:00.000+09:00Funny to see Rachel getting over and over emotiona...Funny to see Rachel getting over and over emotional. She makes a joke out of herself.helpfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863144851806876124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-90651363863965182172008-08-06T16:24:00.000+09:002008-08-06T16:24:00.000+09:00Rachel,it is clear that this map has nothing to do...Rachel,<BR/><BR/>it is clear that this map has nothing to do with your obesession with a guy called An Young-Bok.<BR/>The map is dated back to 1822, while the An Young Bok incident happened in 1693.helpfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10863144851806876124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-68557888297025422762008-08-06T15:00:00.000+09:002008-08-06T15:00:00.000+09:00Steve,I will let you know the rule in Japan in the...Steve,<BR/><BR/>I will let you know the rule in Japan in the Edo period. <BR/><BR/>The merchants who are going abroad must have passes called 御朱印 (scarlet stamp) and the ships of these merchants were called 御朱印船 (scarlet stamp ships). These ships usually went from Nagasaki. The era of these 御朱印船 began in 1592 and continued until 1653 when the Shogunate announced the 海外渡航禁止令 (the order to prohibit going abroad). Until then, they went to Vietnam, Cambodia, Philippines and Taiwan.<BR/><BR/>But as to trades with Joseon, it was controlled by Tsushima clan. They must go to Korea by way of Tsushima. So if the shogunate recognised Ulleungdo as Korean land, they should have went to Ulleungdo by way of Tsushima.pacifisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14100903035796287895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26948035.post-76950012395707388892008-08-06T14:38:00.000+09:002008-08-06T14:38:00.000+09:00dogdo-takeshima,Just think using your sick imagina...dogdo-takeshima,<BR/><BR/>Just think using your sick imagination whether An Yong-bok would have returned to Japan if he had actually seen the Liancourt Rocks on his way to Japan on a Japanese ship or not.Raquelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06777067933400361301noreply@blogger.com